Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

As highlighted in this community post, we still have to deal with the significant limitation of not being able to access the user-sorted order of subform rows through Deluge. This creates a major disconnect between the UI capabilities and backend automation, and I'm hoping the Zoho team can address this in a future update.

The Issue
Zoho Creator now offers two distinct subform sorting methods:
  • Drag and drop: Manual, user-controlled sorting where users reorder rows by dragging them into their preferred sequence. The sort order is arbitrary and based on user preference, not field values.
  • By predefined column: Automatic, system-controlled sorting based on a specified column that happens whenever the record is created or updated. The sort order is predictable and based on field values.
However, these sorted orders are completely invisible to Deluge scripts. When you iterate through subform rows using for each loops, you get the records in their original creation order—regardless of whether the subform uses drag-and-drop sorting or automatic column-based sorting.

The Problem
Regardless of which sorting method is configured, the display order is trapped in the UI layer—Deluge has no way to access it.
Sorting Method What User Sees What Deluge Sees Result
Drag and Drop
User drags Row 5 to position 1
Row 5 appears at the top of the subform Row 5 is still in position 5 (creation order) ✗ Custom order completely ignored
Predefined Column
Subform set to sort by "Priority" (High to Low)
Rows automatically displayed in priority order after save Original creation order (Row 1, Row 2, Row 3...) ✗ Automatic sorting not reflected
Either Method
User clicks "Generate Report" button
Expects report to match displayed order Report generated in creation order ✗ Output doesn't match user's view
Current Limitations
Regardless of which sorting method is enabled, you cannot:
  • Loop through subform rows in the display order (whether drag-and-drop or predefined column)
  • Access any "sort order" or "display position" field
  • Determine which column is used for automatic sorting
  • Detect if drag-and-drop sorting is enabled
  • Update a field (like "Sequence Number") to reflect the sorted order
  • Generate custom reports in Pages or Deluge that respect the subform's display order
Important Note: Record Templates do preserve the re-sorted order when generating PDFs or documents. This means basic reporting through record templates works correctly. However, for any advanced reporting—such as custom HTML in Deluge, Pages, or programmatic data processing—the sorted order is completely inaccessible, making it impossible to replicate what record templates can do.
Example: The Disconnect
Here's a real-world scenario that demonstrates the problem:
// SCENARIO: Task subform is configured to sort by "Priority" column (High to Low)
// This is automatic sorting - happens when record is created/updated
// User clicks a button to "Generate Prioritized Task List"

// What the developer writes:
for each task in input.Task_Subform
{
    task_list = task_list + task.Task_Name + "\n";
}

// EXPECTED OUTPUT (what user sees on screen after save):
// 1. Fix critical bug (High)
// 2. Review code (High)  
// 3. Update documentation (Medium)
// 4. Refactor old code (Low)

// ACTUAL OUTPUT (what Deluge produces):
// 1. Update documentation (Medium)     ← Created first
// 2. Fix critical bug (High)           ← Created second  
// 3. Refactor old code (Low)           ← Created third
// 4. Review code (High)                ← Created fourth

// Result: User confusion and loss of trust in the system
// Note: The same problem occurs with drag-and-drop sorting!
Impact: The generated output doesn't match what the user sees on screen, creating confusion and undermining user confidence. This affects both automatic sorting (by predefined column) and manual sorting (drag-and-drop).
Attempted Workarounds (All Inadequate)
Workaround Approach Implementation Problems Status
Manual Sequence Field Add a "Sequence" number field that users manually update - Requires users to manually type numbers
- Defeats purpose of drag-and-drop sorting
- Doesn't work with predefined column sorting
- Prone to errors and gaps
- Poor user experience
✗ Not viable for real-world use
Sort in Deluge Instead Use Deluge's .sort() function on subform collection - Only works if you know the predefined sort column
- Cannot replicate custom drag-and-drop order at all
- Assumes single-column sorting
- Doesn't help if user needs multi-column sort
- Still a workaround for what should be automatic
⚠ Partial solution for predefined column only
JavaScript Widget Build custom UI using JavaScript Widget instead of native form - Requires abandoning native form entirely
- Must rebuild entire subform interface from scratch
- Significant development and maintenance overhead
- Loses all native form features and functionality
- Defeats the purpose of using Creator's built-in forms
✗ Not viable - abandons native functionality
What Should Happen Instead
Proposed Solution 1: Display Order Field Add a system-generated field that reflects the current display order:
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order")
{
    // Process tasks in the order the user sees them
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Proposed Solution 2: Sort State Information Provide access to the current sort configuration and type:
sort_info = input.Task_Subform.getSortState();
// Returns: 
// {"type": "predefined_column", "column": "Priority", "direction": "desc"}
// or {"type": "drag_and_drop"}

if(sort_info.get("type") == "drag_and_drop")
{
    // Drag-and-drop enabled, access via display_order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order");
}
else if(sort_info.get("type") == "predefined_column")
{
    // Predefined column sorting, replicate that sort
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy(sort_info.get("column"), sort_info.get("direction"));
}
else
{
    // No sorting configured, use creation order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform;
}
Proposed Solution 3: Built-in Sort Preservation Automatically update a hidden "display_sequence" field whenever the display order changes (whether through predefined column sorting or drag-and-drop), making it accessible to Deluge:
// System automatically maintains display_sequence field for both sorting methods
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_sequence")
{
    // Always iterates in display order
    // Works regardless of sorting method (predefined column or drag-and-drop)
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Any of these solutions would bridge the gap between UI capabilities and backend automation for both sorting methods.
Real-World Impact
This limitation affects critical business processes:
  • Project Management (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts tasks by priority, but automated status reports generate in creation order, not priority order
  • Meeting Agendas (Drag and Drop): Users arrange agenda items manually via drag-and-drop, but generated PDF shows items in original entry order
  • Invoice Line Items (Drag and Drop): Users reorder line items for presentation purposes, but printed invoices ignore the arrangement
  • Course Curriculum (Predefined Column or Drag and Drop): Instructors order lessons logically (either by lesson number or manual arrangement), but student-facing materials display in database order
  • Checklist Applications (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts by due date or priority, but automated reminders follow original creation order
  • Product Catalogs (Drag and Drop): Users arrange products by preference or featured status, but exports and integrations ignore the curation

User Experience Impact: Whether using predefined column sorting (automatic) or drag-and-drop sorting (manual), when users see data in a particular order on screen and the system's automation ignores it, it creates frustration and erodes trust. Users expect that if they can see data in a certain order, the system should be able to work with it in that order.

Request to Zoho Team

Can this be addressed in a future update?

This is a fundamental disconnect between what users see in the UI and what developers can access in code. Both sorting methods (predefined column and drag-and-drop) suffer from this limitation. The current implementation forces developers to choose between:

1. Disable Sorting
Remove sorting capabilities (both predefined column and drag-and-drop) to avoid user confusion when automation doesn't respect display order
2. Accept Mismatch
Allow users to sort but acknowledge that automation will produce unexpected results

Neither option is acceptable for professional applications.

Community Input Requested: Has anyone else encountered this limitation or found a reliable workaround? This affects any application where subform ordering matters to end users.


    • Recent Topics

    • Trying to access records in a custom module in Zoho Desk and not having luck

      I've built a custom module in Zoho Desk and am using a custom function to query the records in the module and I'm not having any luck. The only way I have found to retreive a record is by getting it by its recordID (the long zoho assigned one). The function
    • Detailed list of scoring rules in Zoho CRM

      Good morning Zoho community, warm greetings The reason for my message today is that I have a problem with my CRM, which I will explain below: Our organization has scoring rules designed to rate our potential customers or leads in the application based
    • System Components menu not available for Tablet to select language

      I have attached a screenshot of my desktop, mobile, and tablet menu builder options. I am using 2 languages in my application. Language Selection is an option under the System Components part of the menu, but only for my desktop and phone(mobile). My
    • Placeholder format in Number field does not reflect Max Digits configuration

      When the Max Digits (Maximum digits of number) property is set to a smaller value (for example, 2 digits), the placeholder in the input field still displays a 7-digit format (#######). The same behavior can also be observed in Decimal and Currency field
    • Approvals in Zoho Creator

      Hi, This is Surya, in one of  my creator application I have a form called job posting, and I created an approval process for that form. When a user submits that form the record directly adding to that form's report, even it is in the review for approval.
    • How Zoho Desk contributes to the art of savings

      Remember the first time your grandmother gave you cash for a birthday or New Year's gift, Christmas gift, or any special day? You probably tucked that money safely into a piggy bank, waiting for the day you could buy something precious or something you
    • Estimate PDF Templates - logo too large

      Hello, I cloned a standard estimate template, but my logo is showing up much larger than intended. This doesn’t happen with the standard invoice template, where the logo displays correctly. How can I adjust the logo size in the estimate template? Thank
    • Select CRM Custom Module in Zoho Creator

      I have a custom module added in Zoho CRM that I would like to link in Zoho creator.  When I add the Zoho CRM field it does not show the new module.  Is this possible?  Do i need to change something in CRM to make it accesible in Creator?
    • Invoice emails not sending but reminders are

      I am a new user. I have been creating some dummy invoices before I go live and have struck a block. Emails for the invoice are not being recieved by the recipient, however, when I send a reminder for the same invoice the email is sent. NOTE: I have checked
    • How to close an estimate ?

      Hello, I have created estimates, and converted them to invoices to get 50% payment. Now I have 2 cases where the estimate stills shows status partially invoiced, however: 1. for one of them, project stopped half way, so the remaining part will never be
    • Deleted account recovery

      I ended up accidentally deleting our Zoho invoice account while trying to work something out. Emailed support for recovery and restoration of the deleted account, if possible, but they responded by saying they can't find an account associated with that
    • Organization wide Account and Contacts Visibility/Sharing Capabilities?

      Has anyone figured out a way to make visibility or sharing of Accounts and Contacts to be available across the entire organization without having to have every individual user edit their Sharing permissions? For our sales folks they need to be able to
    • CRM Cadences - working timesThe Friday afternoon? The next Monday morning? Not at all?

      I think I’m writing saying that cadence emails are only sent during the organisations set working hours in CRM. So if a particular email is set to send for example in three days and that lands on a Sunday (when working hours are not operational) when
    • CRM Cadences - working times

      I think I’m right in saying that cadence emails are only sent during the organisations set working hours in CRM. So if a particular email is set to send for example in three days and that lands on a Sunday (when working hours are not operational) when
    • Cannot find zpuid for Zoho Projects user

      I'm using the Zoho Projects v3 API to create a task. The task is created successfully, but in order to assign the task owner, the "Create a Task" API also requires the zpuid of the task owner. Unfortunately I cannot find any user-related API calls that
    • Devis et factures multipage coupées

      Bonjour, je suis sur Zoho invoice et je rencontre un problème sur mes devis et factures lorsqu'ils dépassent 1 page. je me retrouve souvent avec des lignes coupées ou le sous total page 1 et le total page 2. j'aimerai savoir s'il existe une possibilité
    • Zoho Desk View Open Tickets and Open Shared Tickets

      Hi, I would like to create a custom view so that an agent can view all the open tickets he has access to, including the shared tickets created by a different department. Currently my team has to swich between two views (Open Tickets and Shared Open Tickets).
    • Custom Related List Inside Zoho Books

      Hello, We can create the Related list inside the zoho books by the deluge code, I am sharing the reference code Please have a look may be it will help you. //..........Get Org Details organizationID = organization.get("organization_id"); Recordid = cm_g_a_data.get("module_record_id");
    • Add the same FROM email to multiple department

      Hi, We have several agents who work with multiple departments and we'd like to be able to select their names on the FROM field (sender), but apparently it's not possible to add a FROM address to multiple departments. Is there any way around this? Thanks.
    • How does SKU work when selling products in parts in Zoho Inventory

      Hello everyone, Zoho Inventory does not understand the physical cutting of the piece.. It only tracks quantities of the unit (like feet ). So when you sell part of an item, the system simply reduces quantity for that SKU. Assume that i have a 50 ft long
    • Zoho Meeting - Feature Request - Introduce an option to use local date and time formating

      Hi Zoho Meeting Team, My feature request is to add an option for dates to be displayed in the users local format. This is common practice across Zoho applications and particularly relevant to an application like Zoho Meeting which revolves around date
    • Incorrect Functioning of Time Logs API (Version 3)

      We need to fetch the list of time logs for each task for our company internal usage. We are trying to achieve it by using the next endpoint: https://projects.zoho.com/api-docs#bulk-time-logs#get-all-project-time-logs Firstly, in the documentation the
    • Cannot give public access to Html Snippet in Zoho Creator Page

      Hi, I created a form in Zoho Creator and published it. The permalink works but I want to override the css of the form. (style based URL parameters is not good enough) So I created a page and added an Html snippet. I can now override the css, which is
    • How can Outlook 365 link back into Zoho Projects so meetings and events in Outlook calendar show in Zoho?

      We use Outlook 365 for our emails and diaries and have integrated Zoho Projects with Office 365. One challenge we face is getting Zoho Projects to recognise when we have meetings and events in Outlook and not allow project managers to assign tasks over that period. Is there a way to resolve this? Thanks
    • IMPORTANT: It doens´t show full article name on search - Should add line break

      When we search for articles, it doesn´t show the full name. There should be a line break so the user can see the full article name, otherwise the user can´t know if that´s the article he/she is looking for. This is very important, otherwise the user has
    • IMPORTANT: It doesn´t search for letters with portuguese characters.

      Some of my articles have for example the word "vídeo". But if I search for "vídeo" it doesn´t find them. If I search for "video" it does find them. Idealy, it should find the articles either way. But if I have to choose, it would be better to find the
    • On Edit Validation Blueprint

      Hello, I have a notes field and a signature field. When the Approve button is clicked, the Signature field will appear and must be filled in. When the Reject button is clicked, the Notes field will appear and must be filled in. Question: Blueprint will
    • Zoho Invoice en Navarra (Spain)

      Hola, ¿Alguien usa Zoho Invoice en la Comunidad Foral de Navarra? En Navarra tenemos un sistema tributario diferente y no aplica Verifactu (la Hacienda Foral de Navarra ha anunciado su alternativa, NaTicket, pero no ha informado cuándo entrará en vigor).
    • Conect chat of salesiq with zoho cliq

      Is there any way to answer from zoho cliq the chat of salesiq initiated by customers?
    • Emails from Zoho are getting blocked due to Zoho IP address being blacklisted

      This is the info I got from my hosting provider – please address this issue immediately. I don’t expect this from such a big household name. Every single invoice I have sernt it not being received by my clients, all being blocked. All of a sudden. As
    • agentid : Where to find?

      I've been looking around for this agenId to check for the total ticket assigned on a specific agent url :"https://desk.zoho.com/api/v1/ticketsCountByFieldValues?departmentId=351081000000155331&agentId=35108xxxxxx132009&field=statusType,status" type :GET
    • Zoho DataPrep integration with OpenAI (beta)

      We are thrilled to announce Zoho DataPrep's integration with OpenAI. The public beta roll-out opens up three features. Users who configure their OpenAI Organizational ID and ChatGPT API key (Find out how) will be able access the features. The features
    • Ability to Attach Record-Specific Files Automatically in Workflow Email Templates

      Currently in Zoho CRM, email templates allow attachments to be added, but these attachments are static and remain the same for every recipient. There is no straightforward option to automatically attach a file that is stored within the specific CRM record
    • Restrict employees to take only one day holiday from a multi-day festival holiday

      Hi everyone, I have a requirement related to Optional/Festival Holidays in Zoho People. For example, in the month of May there are three optional holiday dates: May 11, May 12, and May 13. Employees can choose one of these days as their optional holiday.
    • AI Bot and Advanced Automation for WhatsApp

      Most small businesses "live" on WhatsApp, and while Bigin’s current integration is helpful, users need more automation to keep up with volume. We are requesting features based on our customer Feedbacks AI Bot: For auto-replying to FAQs. Keyword Triggers:
    • Related lists New option in missing

      hi I have created quite a few modules and added as related lists to my main module. Some have new, some dont I can not see why?
    • Setting total budget hours for a specific project

      Hi there, I work on a lot of projects that have fixed budget hours. Is there a way to enter the total budgeted hours so i can track progress and identify when hours have been exceeded. I see in the projects dashboard there is a greyed out text saying
    • Clone entire dashboards

      If users want to customize a dashboard that is used by other team members, they can't clone it in order to customize the copy. Instead they have to create the same dashboard again manually from scratch. Suggestion: Let users copy the entire dashboard
    • Introducing Formula Fields for performing dynamic calculations

      Greetings, With the Formula Field, you can generate numerical calculations using provided functions and available fields, enabling you to derive dynamic data. You can utilize mathematical formulas to populate results based on the provided inputs. This
    • Getting started with Zoho PDF Editor

      Hello users, If you are new to Zoho PDF Editor or aren't sure of its full potential, then this article is for you. Zoho PDF Editor is a free online PDF editing tool, that allows you to upload and edit PDFs, insert text and images, add fillable and e-signature
    • Next Page