Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

As highlighted in this community post, we still have to deal with the significant limitation of not being able to access the user-sorted order of subform rows through Deluge. This creates a major disconnect between the UI capabilities and backend automation, and I'm hoping the Zoho team can address this in a future update.

The Issue
Zoho Creator now offers two distinct subform sorting methods:
  • Drag and drop: Manual, user-controlled sorting where users reorder rows by dragging them into their preferred sequence. The sort order is arbitrary and based on user preference, not field values.
  • By predefined column: Automatic, system-controlled sorting based on a specified column that happens whenever the record is created or updated. The sort order is predictable and based on field values.
However, these sorted orders are completely invisible to Deluge scripts. When you iterate through subform rows using for each loops, you get the records in their original creation order—regardless of whether the subform uses drag-and-drop sorting or automatic column-based sorting.

The Problem
Regardless of which sorting method is configured, the display order is trapped in the UI layer—Deluge has no way to access it.
Sorting Method What User Sees What Deluge Sees Result
Drag and Drop
User drags Row 5 to position 1
Row 5 appears at the top of the subform Row 5 is still in position 5 (creation order) ✗ Custom order completely ignored
Predefined Column
Subform set to sort by "Priority" (High to Low)
Rows automatically displayed in priority order after save Original creation order (Row 1, Row 2, Row 3...) ✗ Automatic sorting not reflected
Either Method
User clicks "Generate Report" button
Expects report to match displayed order Report generated in creation order ✗ Output doesn't match user's view
Current Limitations
Regardless of which sorting method is enabled, you cannot:
  • Loop through subform rows in the display order (whether drag-and-drop or predefined column)
  • Access any "sort order" or "display position" field
  • Determine which column is used for automatic sorting
  • Detect if drag-and-drop sorting is enabled
  • Update a field (like "Sequence Number") to reflect the sorted order
  • Generate custom reports in Pages or Deluge that respect the subform's display order
Important Note: Record Templates do preserve the re-sorted order when generating PDFs or documents. This means basic reporting through record templates works correctly. However, for any advanced reporting—such as custom HTML in Deluge, Pages, or programmatic data processing—the sorted order is completely inaccessible, making it impossible to replicate what record templates can do.
Example: The Disconnect
Here's a real-world scenario that demonstrates the problem:
// SCENARIO: Task subform is configured to sort by "Priority" column (High to Low)
// This is automatic sorting - happens when record is created/updated
// User clicks a button to "Generate Prioritized Task List"

// What the developer writes:
for each task in input.Task_Subform
{
    task_list = task_list + task.Task_Name + "\n";
}

// EXPECTED OUTPUT (what user sees on screen after save):
// 1. Fix critical bug (High)
// 2. Review code (High)  
// 3. Update documentation (Medium)
// 4. Refactor old code (Low)

// ACTUAL OUTPUT (what Deluge produces):
// 1. Update documentation (Medium)     ← Created first
// 2. Fix critical bug (High)           ← Created second  
// 3. Refactor old code (Low)           ← Created third
// 4. Review code (High)                ← Created fourth

// Result: User confusion and loss of trust in the system
// Note: The same problem occurs with drag-and-drop sorting!
Impact: The generated output doesn't match what the user sees on screen, creating confusion and undermining user confidence. This affects both automatic sorting (by predefined column) and manual sorting (drag-and-drop).
Attempted Workarounds (All Inadequate)
Workaround Approach Implementation Problems Status
Manual Sequence Field Add a "Sequence" number field that users manually update - Requires users to manually type numbers
- Defeats purpose of drag-and-drop sorting
- Doesn't work with predefined column sorting
- Prone to errors and gaps
- Poor user experience
✗ Not viable for real-world use
Sort in Deluge Instead Use Deluge's .sort() function on subform collection - Only works if you know the predefined sort column
- Cannot replicate custom drag-and-drop order at all
- Assumes single-column sorting
- Doesn't help if user needs multi-column sort
- Still a workaround for what should be automatic
⚠ Partial solution for predefined column only
JavaScript Widget Build custom UI using JavaScript Widget instead of native form - Requires abandoning native form entirely
- Must rebuild entire subform interface from scratch
- Significant development and maintenance overhead
- Loses all native form features and functionality
- Defeats the purpose of using Creator's built-in forms
✗ Not viable - abandons native functionality
What Should Happen Instead
Proposed Solution 1: Display Order Field Add a system-generated field that reflects the current display order:
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order")
{
    // Process tasks in the order the user sees them
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Proposed Solution 2: Sort State Information Provide access to the current sort configuration and type:
sort_info = input.Task_Subform.getSortState();
// Returns: 
// {"type": "predefined_column", "column": "Priority", "direction": "desc"}
// or {"type": "drag_and_drop"}

if(sort_info.get("type") == "drag_and_drop")
{
    // Drag-and-drop enabled, access via display_order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order");
}
else if(sort_info.get("type") == "predefined_column")
{
    // Predefined column sorting, replicate that sort
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy(sort_info.get("column"), sort_info.get("direction"));
}
else
{
    // No sorting configured, use creation order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform;
}
Proposed Solution 3: Built-in Sort Preservation Automatically update a hidden "display_sequence" field whenever the display order changes (whether through predefined column sorting or drag-and-drop), making it accessible to Deluge:
// System automatically maintains display_sequence field for both sorting methods
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_sequence")
{
    // Always iterates in display order
    // Works regardless of sorting method (predefined column or drag-and-drop)
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Any of these solutions would bridge the gap between UI capabilities and backend automation for both sorting methods.
Real-World Impact
This limitation affects critical business processes:
  • Project Management (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts tasks by priority, but automated status reports generate in creation order, not priority order
  • Meeting Agendas (Drag and Drop): Users arrange agenda items manually via drag-and-drop, but generated PDF shows items in original entry order
  • Invoice Line Items (Drag and Drop): Users reorder line items for presentation purposes, but printed invoices ignore the arrangement
  • Course Curriculum (Predefined Column or Drag and Drop): Instructors order lessons logically (either by lesson number or manual arrangement), but student-facing materials display in database order
  • Checklist Applications (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts by due date or priority, but automated reminders follow original creation order
  • Product Catalogs (Drag and Drop): Users arrange products by preference or featured status, but exports and integrations ignore the curation

User Experience Impact: Whether using predefined column sorting (automatic) or drag-and-drop sorting (manual), when users see data in a particular order on screen and the system's automation ignores it, it creates frustration and erodes trust. Users expect that if they can see data in a certain order, the system should be able to work with it in that order.

Request to Zoho Team

Can this be addressed in a future update?

This is a fundamental disconnect between what users see in the UI and what developers can access in code. Both sorting methods (predefined column and drag-and-drop) suffer from this limitation. The current implementation forces developers to choose between:

1. Disable Sorting
Remove sorting capabilities (both predefined column and drag-and-drop) to avoid user confusion when automation doesn't respect display order
2. Accept Mismatch
Allow users to sort but acknowledge that automation will produce unexpected results

Neither option is acceptable for professional applications.

Community Input Requested: Has anyone else encountered this limitation or found a reliable workaround? This affects any application where subform ordering matters to end users.


    • Recent Topics

    • This domain is not allowed to add in Zoho. Please contact support-as@zohocorp.com for further details

      After not using the domain rcclima.org.pe for some time, I'm trying to set up the free version of Zoho Mail. When I tried to validate my domain, rcclima.org.pe, I received the error message discussed in this thread: "This domain is not allowed to be added
    • Perfomance Management - Zoho People

      Hi team, I am looking for performance management data such as KRA, goals, feedback, appraisals, etc., in Zoho Analytics. However, I am unable to find these metrics while editing the setup. Could you please confirm whether these fields are available in
    • Deprecation of the Zoho OAuth connector

      Hello everyone, At Zoho, we continuously evaluate our integrations to ensure they meet the highest standards of security, reliability, and compliance. As part of these ongoing efforts, we've made the decision to deprecate the Zoho OAuth default connector
    • Zoho Mail iOS app update: Display recipient's nickname on contact suggestion

      Hello everyone! In the most recent version(v3.3.1) of the Zoho Mail iOS app update we have brought in support to display recipient's nickname in contacts suggestion. Please update the app to the latest version directly from the App Store or using the
    • Digest Février - Un résumé de ce qui s'est passé le mois dernier sur Community

      Bonjour chers utilisateurs, Le 26 février, nous avons organisé notre première session Ask the Expert de 2026. Nous sommes heureux de partager que ce fut une session très interactive, avec de nombreuses questions intéressantes posées par nos clients. Si
    • Zoho CRM Case Notes - Share to Customer

      Hi team does anyone know the Api to set a note, against a case, to shared with customer? i cant seem to find it  cheers 
    • Send out follow-up email in the same thread (threaded conversations in individual emails) from Zoho CRM

      Hi, I'm new to Zoho. I'm trying to send individual emails to my leads one by one. And I'll send out follow up email if I don't hear back from them later. However, instead of sending a new email, I want to reply in the same email thread so that the recipients
    • web to lead

      Can anyone help me how to create web to lead from zoho marketing automation
    • UI issue with Organize Tabs

      When looking at the organize Tabs window (bellow) you can see that some tabs are grayed out. there is also a "Add Module/Web Tab" button. When looking at this screen it's clear that the grayed out tabs can not be removed from the portal user's screen
    • I created a signup form in Zoho Marketing Automation with the correct field mapping, but the data is not being reflected under Leads in Zoho CRM.

      web to lead from zoho marketing automation
    • Pasted Images not being embedded in custom mail

      Hi, I'm making a custom report by email based on commentaries. I have the email ready, all working great except for images that are being pasted in the commentaries. Zoho deals with them as temp images and so it requires authentication to view them, something
    • Kaizen #232 - Building a Ticket Escalation Mechanism from Zoho CRM

      Howdy, Tech Wizards! Picking up the thread from last week, we will continue our Zoho CRM and Zoho Desk integration. In Kaizen #231 - Embedding Zoho Desk Tickets in Zoho CRM, we built a Related List widget that displays open Zoho Desk tickets within the
    • Inactive License for free account.

      I recently upgraded my Cliq subscription not my team (on the free version), are unable to login to their accounts. The error message received is Inactive License Looks like you have not been covered under the current free plan of users. Please contact
    • Deluge scripts

      Why is there not a search function to make it easier to find the script of interest when modifications are required.
    • Searching for an item from within an invoice should show any item containing the string, not just those that begin with the string.

      Hello, I've found myself becoming increasingly frustrated with the limited line-item seach when adding new items to an invoice. The problem is that the characters being typed are only being matched from the beginning of the item name.  This might be usable
    • How to Rank Tables by Row Count in Descending Order

      I am trying to understand the consume of lines that grow up so fast in the last week. Is there any way to create a pivot table or query to get TABLE NAME LINES in descending order?
    • Dealing With One-Time Customers on Zoho Books

      Hello there! I am trying to figure out a way to handle One-Time customers without having to create multiple accounts for every single one on Zoho Books. I understand that I can create a placeholder account called "Walk-In Customer", for example, but I
    • Feature Request: Render Markdown (.md) files in Zoho Cliq

      Hi, We regularly share Markdown (.md) files in Zoho Cliq. However, when we open these files in Cliq, the content does not render as Markdown—it displays as plain text. This forces us to copy/paste the content into an external Markdown viewer to read it
    • Subforms and automation

      If a user updates a field how do we create an automation etc. We have a field for returned parts and i want to get an email when that field is ticked. How please as Zoho tells me no automation on subforms. The Reason- Why having waited for ever for FSM
    • Xero Billing Data (22 instances) - Zoho (CRM) - Single Source of Truth For Client Data & Notes

      Hi - I’m trying to build out a CRM for a Single Source of Truth Currently I have 22 Instances of Xero (for legal entity purposes - can’t consolidate to one) How would I be best placed to do this? Is it possible to have all the Xero instances (22) → Consolidated
    • Zoho CRM Quotes – Subform and PDF/Writer Limitations

      Hello, I am encountering the following limitations in Zoho CRM Quotes: Custom product images cannot be uploaded in the subform – the image upload field cannot be added; only the file upload field is available. File upload placeholders cannot be used in
    • No background for video recordings, no playback speed, can't even playback longer recordings - have to download…

      Hi. We utilize heavily video messages on Slack, but wanted to migrate to Cliq with Zoho One, however very basic yet very frequently used feature is missing: backgrounds for video recordings and playback speed. We were not happy with Slack's 5 minute limits
    • Support inefficiency

      We have been asking for support for a minor adjustment for 12 days now and we haven't got a single viable resolution from support team despite there are 19 emails going between our HR team and various support emails from Zoho. 1. they do not understand
    • About Certification Exam

      I recently written Zoho Creator Ceritification Exam But i failed in first attempt of exam. how to reset my account for second attempt of exam . 
    • Zia capabilities now available in the Professional edition announcement

      Hello all! The Professional edition now supports a broader set of Zia capabilities, enabling teams to bring AI into more of their everyday CRM work. From writing assistance and summaries to setup support, predictions, and recommendations, Zia can now
    • Where Do I set 24h time format in Cliq?

      Where Do I set 24h time format? Thanks
    • How to I generate Proforma Invoices?

      When customers need to pay by bank transfer I need to send them a Proforma Invoice with our bank details. I am unable to work out how this can be done.  It needs to be done at the Sales Order stage before a formal Invoice is generated. John Legg Owner:
    • This will be long, Please bear with me - Next Gen Layout - Search

      In general, I think that Zoho are going in the right direction with the Next Gen UI. The latest update brings some nice improvements and all-in-all from a user's perspective I think the improvements are generally very good. However, there are some areas
    • Selecting all notes in a notebook

      In Windows11, I select a notebook and I get a list of notes, but only 30 notes. If I scroll down to the end, I get an additional 30 notes (and at the top it now shows 60 notes). I can keep doing this to eventually see all my notes but this is a real pain.
    • Filter Records in CRM API

      Hi Team, I’m currently working on a task to retrieve expired deals from the CRM. By “expired deals,” I mean deals where the closing date has already passed and the stage is not “Closed Won” or “Closed Lost” (i.e., all other stages). I tried using both
    • User Name in Zoho Cliq Not Updating Across Apps?

      We updated the name of a user in Zoho. (From Sue to Taylor) Her name has not been updated in Cliq on all apps. When in Zoho One, if I go to Cliq directly, it is correct, but if I am in another app, and the Cliq bar pops up on the bottom, it will be the
    • Why I can't map Account Name from lead module to Account module?

      When I qualify a lead in the bluerprint, I use automated conversion in Blueprint to automatically create Contact, Account and Deal. the Deal record and contact record has been successfully created automatically as I expect, but I can't see any account
    • Pause(1);

      I'm using scheduler to invoke an interaction via http post with an external service. The schedule code uses a for-each loop that runs so fast my external application's log files get messed-up (they are named by date-time stamp). What I'm suggesting is
    • Release Notes | February 2026

      We have rolled out another set of enhancements in Vertical Studio during February 2026, bringing improvements to Canvas customization, reporting capabilities, and data access controls. Here is a summary of what was released during February 2026: Canvas
    • Agentic Engineering with Zoho: The Next Evolution of Intelligent Systems

      The concept of Agentic Engineering is reshaping how modern systems are designed. It introduces a new layer to the way we think about artificial intelligence and system architecture. For years, most software systems have operated in a reactive way — responding
    • Add Webhook Response Module to Zoho Flow

      Hi Zoho Flow Team, We’d like to request a Webhook Response capability for Zoho Flow that can return a dynamic, computed reply to the original webhook caller after / during the flow runs. What exists today Zoho Flow’s webhook trigger can send custom acknowledgements
    • Engenharia Agêntica e as soluções da Zoho

      O conceito de engenharia agêntica impacta diretamente como os sistemas são projetos. Este tema inseri mais uma camada a nossa idéia de inteligência artificial. Antes o desenvolvimento de sistemas operavam de forma reativa e dependente de comandos diretos,
    • Effective project and task customization with CodeX

      Dear users, Beyond Task Lists is a series of articles aimed at showcasing the various customization capabilities of Zoho Projects. We'll discuss real life project management scenarios, use cases, and requirements that needs combining multiple features.
    • Set expiration date on document and send reminder

      We have many company documents( for example business registration), work VISA documents. It will be nice if we can set a expiry date and set reminders ( for example 90 days, 60 days, 30 days etc.,) Does Zoho workdrive provide that option?
    • Debit opening balances of vendors

      Dear colleagues: I am looking at the trial balance as on 31st March 2024, and punching opening balances (1st April 2024) in Zoho Books. Vendors have credit balances, by its nature, but some of our vendors have debit balances as well (e.g., we have paid
    • Next Page