Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

As highlighted in this community post, we still have to deal with the significant limitation of not being able to access the user-sorted order of subform rows through Deluge. This creates a major disconnect between the UI capabilities and backend automation, and I'm hoping the Zoho team can address this in a future update.

The Issue
Zoho Creator now offers two distinct subform sorting methods:
  • Drag and drop: Manual, user-controlled sorting where users reorder rows by dragging them into their preferred sequence. The sort order is arbitrary and based on user preference, not field values.
  • By predefined column: Automatic, system-controlled sorting based on a specified column that happens whenever the record is created or updated. The sort order is predictable and based on field values.
However, these sorted orders are completely invisible to Deluge scripts. When you iterate through subform rows using for each loops, you get the records in their original creation order—regardless of whether the subform uses drag-and-drop sorting or automatic column-based sorting.

The Problem
Regardless of which sorting method is configured, the display order is trapped in the UI layer—Deluge has no way to access it.
Sorting Method What User Sees What Deluge Sees Result
Drag and Drop
User drags Row 5 to position 1
Row 5 appears at the top of the subform Row 5 is still in position 5 (creation order) ✗ Custom order completely ignored
Predefined Column
Subform set to sort by "Priority" (High to Low)
Rows automatically displayed in priority order after save Original creation order (Row 1, Row 2, Row 3...) ✗ Automatic sorting not reflected
Either Method
User clicks "Generate Report" button
Expects report to match displayed order Report generated in creation order ✗ Output doesn't match user's view
Current Limitations
Regardless of which sorting method is enabled, you cannot:
  • Loop through subform rows in the display order (whether drag-and-drop or predefined column)
  • Access any "sort order" or "display position" field
  • Determine which column is used for automatic sorting
  • Detect if drag-and-drop sorting is enabled
  • Update a field (like "Sequence Number") to reflect the sorted order
  • Generate custom reports in Pages or Deluge that respect the subform's display order
Important Note: Record Templates do preserve the re-sorted order when generating PDFs or documents. This means basic reporting through record templates works correctly. However, for any advanced reporting—such as custom HTML in Deluge, Pages, or programmatic data processing—the sorted order is completely inaccessible, making it impossible to replicate what record templates can do.
Example: The Disconnect
Here's a real-world scenario that demonstrates the problem:
// SCENARIO: Task subform is configured to sort by "Priority" column (High to Low)
// This is automatic sorting - happens when record is created/updated
// User clicks a button to "Generate Prioritized Task List"

// What the developer writes:
for each task in input.Task_Subform
{
    task_list = task_list + task.Task_Name + "\n";
}

// EXPECTED OUTPUT (what user sees on screen after save):
// 1. Fix critical bug (High)
// 2. Review code (High)  
// 3. Update documentation (Medium)
// 4. Refactor old code (Low)

// ACTUAL OUTPUT (what Deluge produces):
// 1. Update documentation (Medium)     ← Created first
// 2. Fix critical bug (High)           ← Created second  
// 3. Refactor old code (Low)           ← Created third
// 4. Review code (High)                ← Created fourth

// Result: User confusion and loss of trust in the system
// Note: The same problem occurs with drag-and-drop sorting!
Impact: The generated output doesn't match what the user sees on screen, creating confusion and undermining user confidence. This affects both automatic sorting (by predefined column) and manual sorting (drag-and-drop).
Attempted Workarounds (All Inadequate)
Workaround Approach Implementation Problems Status
Manual Sequence Field Add a "Sequence" number field that users manually update - Requires users to manually type numbers
- Defeats purpose of drag-and-drop sorting
- Doesn't work with predefined column sorting
- Prone to errors and gaps
- Poor user experience
✗ Not viable for real-world use
Sort in Deluge Instead Use Deluge's .sort() function on subform collection - Only works if you know the predefined sort column
- Cannot replicate custom drag-and-drop order at all
- Assumes single-column sorting
- Doesn't help if user needs multi-column sort
- Still a workaround for what should be automatic
⚠ Partial solution for predefined column only
JavaScript Widget Build custom UI using JavaScript Widget instead of native form - Requires abandoning native form entirely
- Must rebuild entire subform interface from scratch
- Significant development and maintenance overhead
- Loses all native form features and functionality
- Defeats the purpose of using Creator's built-in forms
✗ Not viable - abandons native functionality
What Should Happen Instead
Proposed Solution 1: Display Order Field Add a system-generated field that reflects the current display order:
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order")
{
    // Process tasks in the order the user sees them
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Proposed Solution 2: Sort State Information Provide access to the current sort configuration and type:
sort_info = input.Task_Subform.getSortState();
// Returns: 
// {"type": "predefined_column", "column": "Priority", "direction": "desc"}
// or {"type": "drag_and_drop"}

if(sort_info.get("type") == "drag_and_drop")
{
    // Drag-and-drop enabled, access via display_order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order");
}
else if(sort_info.get("type") == "predefined_column")
{
    // Predefined column sorting, replicate that sort
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy(sort_info.get("column"), sort_info.get("direction"));
}
else
{
    // No sorting configured, use creation order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform;
}
Proposed Solution 3: Built-in Sort Preservation Automatically update a hidden "display_sequence" field whenever the display order changes (whether through predefined column sorting or drag-and-drop), making it accessible to Deluge:
// System automatically maintains display_sequence field for both sorting methods
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_sequence")
{
    // Always iterates in display order
    // Works regardless of sorting method (predefined column or drag-and-drop)
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Any of these solutions would bridge the gap between UI capabilities and backend automation for both sorting methods.
Real-World Impact
This limitation affects critical business processes:
  • Project Management (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts tasks by priority, but automated status reports generate in creation order, not priority order
  • Meeting Agendas (Drag and Drop): Users arrange agenda items manually via drag-and-drop, but generated PDF shows items in original entry order
  • Invoice Line Items (Drag and Drop): Users reorder line items for presentation purposes, but printed invoices ignore the arrangement
  • Course Curriculum (Predefined Column or Drag and Drop): Instructors order lessons logically (either by lesson number or manual arrangement), but student-facing materials display in database order
  • Checklist Applications (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts by due date or priority, but automated reminders follow original creation order
  • Product Catalogs (Drag and Drop): Users arrange products by preference or featured status, but exports and integrations ignore the curation

User Experience Impact: Whether using predefined column sorting (automatic) or drag-and-drop sorting (manual), when users see data in a particular order on screen and the system's automation ignores it, it creates frustration and erodes trust. Users expect that if they can see data in a certain order, the system should be able to work with it in that order.

Request to Zoho Team

Can this be addressed in a future update?

This is a fundamental disconnect between what users see in the UI and what developers can access in code. Both sorting methods (predefined column and drag-and-drop) suffer from this limitation. The current implementation forces developers to choose between:

1. Disable Sorting
Remove sorting capabilities (both predefined column and drag-and-drop) to avoid user confusion when automation doesn't respect display order
2. Accept Mismatch
Allow users to sort but acknowledge that automation will produce unexpected results

Neither option is acceptable for professional applications.

Community Input Requested: Has anyone else encountered this limitation or found a reliable workaround? This affects any application where subform ordering matters to end users.


      • Recent Topics

      • Zoho Subscriptions -- Zoho Commerce integration

        Is there integration between Zoho Subscriptions and Zoho Commerce? I would like to create subscription plans in Zoho Subscritpions and list them for on my Zoho Commerce store.
      • Synching changes to Stripe when changes are made in Zoho Billing

        We have a situation where we have merged customers in Zoho BIlling and then found out later that the payment in Stripe was not updated and still associated with the old customer record. The card gets updated and billed, but that payment is still associated
      • How can I link Products in a Deal Subform to the Products Module

        Hello, I have a pricing subform on our Deals page and use a lookup field to associate a product with each line. I want to be able to look at a product page within the Products module and see a list of the deals connected to that product. I have this working
      • Help Center and SEO: Any Benefit to My Domain-Mapped Website Ranking?

        First of, I love the Help Center which I've just decided to integrate into my website to replace its old-fashioned FAQs. So much more to achieve there now! Lots of new benefits to the site visitors and to me in terms of organizing and delivering all the
      • Business Hours with lunch break

        Our business hours are: mon - fri 08:30 - 13:00, 15:00 - 18:30. How can I handle the lunch break? If I use 8:30 - 18:30 it obviously breaks SLA. Thanks
      • Zoho Desktop App- Unable to Minimize/Freezes

        I'm having issues with my Zoho Mail desktop app (PC). When go on my desktop and open the app this is what happens: - Unable to minimize and close app (in the screenshot attached you can see at the top right there is no option to minimize/close) - Unable
      • Can Zoho Marketing Automation send OTP codes via WhatsApp during user registration?

        The flow I would like to implement is: A user signs up in the mobile app and enters their phone number. The system generates a one-time verification code (OTP). The OTP is sent to the user via WhatsApp message. The user enters the code in the app to confirm
      • Enable Free External Collaboration on Notecards in Zoho Notebook

        Hi Zoho Notebook Team, I would like to suggest a feature enhancement regarding external collaboration in Zoho Notebook. Currently, we can share notes with external users, and they are able to view the content without any issue. However, when these external
      • Can I export to PDF in Zoho Learn

        I have seen help pages where export to pdf options are available but I do not see that option available from the application. I see that exprt is available in my free trial version but that is only to html pages. I need to be able to export my manuals
      • Zoho Commerce

        Hi, I have zoho one and use Zoho Books. I am very interested in Zoho Commerce , especially with how all is integrated but have a question. I do not want my store to show prices for customers that are not log in. Is there a way to hide the prices if not
      • Zoho Sprints iOS app update: Global view, screen capture control, file encryption, tags enhancement

        Hello everyone! We are excited to introduce new features in the latest version(v2.1) of the Zoho Sprints iOS app update. Let’s take a quick look at what’s new. 1. Global view Global view brings all your project items into one centralised space. You can
      • Marking a meeting 'done'.

        I would like to somehow mark a meeting 'done' and placed under the contact's page rather than deleting it and having no record of it. Am I missing a button that does this?
      • Zoho Projects Android and iOS app update: Conditional layout rules for Tasks

        Hello everyone! Task conditional layout rules configured on the web app(projects.zoho.com) are now applied on the Zoho Projects Android and iOS app. Conditional layout rules can be set for the Add/ edit task form and it allows you to change the property
      • How to account for vat with postponed VAT accounting

        Hi everyone, looking for some help with postponed VAT accounting, I use DHL express for my imports and they used to pay the VAT for me and then invoice me. I could then log this as a bill and the VAT element from import was recorded as input VAT, all
      • Introducing Formula Fields for performing dynamic calculations

        Greetings, With the Formula Field, you can generate numerical calculations using provided functions and available fields, enabling you to derive dynamic data. You can utilize mathematical formulas to populate results based on the provided inputs. This
      • Zobot with Plugs

        Hello, I am having a problem with Zobot using Plugs. Here is my current flow: When I run the flow, I should immediately see the messages from the initial cards (Send Message cards), then after running the plug, and finally, see the messages after the
      • Use URL field to populate Image in a Email Template

        We have two records Record 1: Appointments (with a Lookup to Doctors module) Related Record 2: Doctors (with a URL field that is an image of the doctor) We would like to populate a CRM email template with the image of the URL field for the related doctor
      • Delete button

        Hi, The delete button were hide into the three dot button. Can I display outside? why Zoho make this update?
      • Is there a way to show contact emails in the Account?

        I know I can see the emails I have sent and received on a Contact detail view, but I want to be able to see all the emails that have been sent and received between all an Accounts Contacts on the Account Detail view. That way when I see the Account detail
      • Invalid scope choice: Workdrive integration in CRM

        Bug: There is an invalid option in the permission choices for Workdrive integration in CRM. If the entry "WorkDrive.teamfolder.CREATE" is selected, it will return a message indicating invalid OAuth scope scope does not exist.
      • Dark Mode - Font Colors Don't Work

        When editing a document in Dark Mode and selecting font colors, they don't show up on screen.  Viewing/editing the same document in Light Mode shows them just fine.
      • Good news! Calendar in Zoho CRM gets a face lift

        Dear Customers, We are delighted to unveil the revamped calendar UI in Zoho CRM. With a complete visual overhaul aligned with CRM for Everyone, the calendar now offers a more intuitive and flexible scheduling experience. What’s new? Distinguish activities
      • Zoho mail admin panel not opening

      • Zoho CRM WooCommerce Integrtation

        Looking for a solution for my 50 client to show detailed analytics on source of traffic that led to events, leads, conversions. Hi all, I have not been able to find a workable guide or solution to how exactly step by step integrate the Zoho CRM with WooCommerce
      • Attaching files to emails within CRM Deals.

        Hello, We have recently started using the extension "Workdrive for CRM" (Related List) to view/store our documents for each Deal, instead of using Attachments. Overall it feels like a better way to go but the user experience is not so great when it comes
      • Service line items

        Hello Latha, Could you please let me know the maximum number of service line items that can be added to a single work order? Thanks, Chethiya.
      • 500 internal server error on opening an iframe through a deluge script

        Hi Team I am trying to open an external url in an iframe through my deluge script which is associated to a custom button . By doing this i am getting an "Internal Server Error" . Please can you help me with this.
      • Kaizen #225 - Making Query-based Custom Related Lists Actionable with Lookups and Links

        Hello everyone! Welcome back to another post in the Kaizen series! This week, we will discuss an exciting enhancement in Queries in Zoho CRM. In Kaizen #190, we discussed how Queries bridge gaps where native related lists fall short and power custom related
      • No Need To Fix Something That Is Working

        Zoho Books is a great financial tool which helps businesses to become more efficient and productive with day-to-day operations. As such, every change, upgrade, improvement needs to be carefully thought before implemented in the software and I'm sure Zoho
      • Filter button in the Zoho Sheet Android App doesn't toggle on

        I am a new Zoho Sheets user and experiencing a specific issue with the filter functionality in the Android mobile application. Detailed Issue Description: The filter icon appears correctly in the toolbar. Upon tapping the filter icon/button, the toggle
      • Is Zoho Sites still actively being developed?

        Hello, Is Zoho Sites still actively being developed as part of the Zoho ecosystem? I noticed that the What's New page (https://www.zoho.com/sites/whats-new.html) does not show any updates since Q1 2025. We were considering migrating our website from Squarespace
      • Project Notifcatiion Emails - Milestone

        Hello: I cannot get myself, or most importantly my portal client user to recieve an email upon completion of a milestone. I have set up our 1st project. I have set up a test client user. (accepted the invitation and is listed in the system as a client
      • Zoho Forms - Feature Request - Year Field

        Hi Zoho Forms Team, You currently have the following date and time fields: Date Time Date and Time Year and Month It would be useful if you could include a "Year" field For example a recent application I completed said "What year was your house built?"
      • Integrate Excel or Zoho Sheet functions / calculations to CRM product module

        Hello Community, I hope someone more experienced can help me with this question. Our price / payment plan calculations are in an Excel spreadsheet and I would like to use all those functions / calculations in my Products module. So when we send a quote
      • Sync CRM Contacts to USER'S contacts on Office 365

        I can see that the O365 sync is transferring contacts backwards and forwards between Zoho CRM and Office365. But it has created a separate address book in Office 365 called "Zoho CRM Contacts". This address book is not used by Office/Outlook's email function
      • Manage Every Customer Conversation from Every Channel inside Zoho SalesIQ

        Your customers message you from everywhere. But are you really able to track, manage, and follow through on every conversation, without missing anything? With interactions coming in from websites, mobile apps, and messaging platforms like WhatsApp and
      • Zoho Books | Product updates | February 2026

        Hello users, We’ve rolled out new features and enhancements in Zoho Books. From Advanced Reporting Tags to the ability to mark projects as completed, explore the latest updates designed to improve your bookkeeping experience. Introducing Advanced Reporting
      • Update latitude & longitude address field API

        How do I update the coordinates of an address field from a widget? I can't modify the latitude and longitude of the address field. I think the problem is how I'm writing formdata variable. zoho_init.then(function (data) { var queryParams = ZOHO.CREATOR.UTIL.getQueryParams();
      • Zoho Forms - Feature Request - Past Into Scanning/OCR Field

        Hi Zoho Forms Team, You recently introduced the OCR/Scanning field which I have found great use for with one client who receives work orders as a screenshot from one customer. I want to raise a feature request here which would make that field even more
      • inability to use different primary address on invoice per location

        my company operates in two different locations with different email address. The problems then is the inability to edit the primary to suite the invoice for the second location.
      • Next Page