Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

As highlighted in this community post, we still have to deal with the significant limitation of not being able to access the user-sorted order of subform rows through Deluge. This creates a major disconnect between the UI capabilities and backend automation, and I'm hoping the Zoho team can address this in a future update.

The Issue
Zoho Creator now offers two distinct subform sorting methods:
  • Drag and drop: Manual, user-controlled sorting where users reorder rows by dragging them into their preferred sequence. The sort order is arbitrary and based on user preference, not field values.
  • By predefined column: Automatic, system-controlled sorting based on a specified column that happens whenever the record is created or updated. The sort order is predictable and based on field values.
However, these sorted orders are completely invisible to Deluge scripts. When you iterate through subform rows using for each loops, you get the records in their original creation order—regardless of whether the subform uses drag-and-drop sorting or automatic column-based sorting.

The Problem
Regardless of which sorting method is configured, the display order is trapped in the UI layer—Deluge has no way to access it.
Sorting Method What User Sees What Deluge Sees Result
Drag and Drop
User drags Row 5 to position 1		 Row 5 appears at the top of the subform Row 5 is still in position 5 (creation order) ✗ Custom order completely ignored
Predefined Column
Subform set to sort by "Priority" (High to Low)		 Rows automatically displayed in priority order after save Original creation order (Row 1, Row 2, Row 3...) ✗ Automatic sorting not reflected
Either Method
User clicks "Generate Report" button		 Expects report to match displayed order Report generated in creation order ✗ Output doesn't match user's view
Current Limitations
Regardless of which sorting method is enabled, you cannot:
  • Loop through subform rows in the display order (whether drag-and-drop or predefined column)
  • Access any "sort order" or "display position" field
  • Determine which column is used for automatic sorting
  • Detect if drag-and-drop sorting is enabled
  • Update a field (like "Sequence Number") to reflect the sorted order
  • Generate custom reports in Pages or Deluge that respect the subform's display order
Important Note: Record Templates do preserve the re-sorted order when generating PDFs or documents. This means basic reporting through record templates works correctly. However, for any advanced reporting—such as custom HTML in Deluge, Pages, or programmatic data processing—the sorted order is completely inaccessible, making it impossible to replicate what record templates can do.
Example: The Disconnect
Here's a real-world scenario that demonstrates the problem: 
// SCENARIO: Task subform is configured to sort by "Priority" column (High to Low)
// This is automatic sorting - happens when record is created/updated
// User clicks a button to "Generate Prioritized Task List"

// What the developer writes:
for each task in input.Task_Subform
{
    task_list = task_list + task.Task_Name + "\n";
}

// EXPECTED OUTPUT (what user sees on screen after save):
// 1. Fix critical bug (High)
// 2. Review code (High)  
// 3. Update documentation (Medium)
// 4. Refactor old code (Low)

// ACTUAL OUTPUT (what Deluge produces):
// 1. Update documentation (Medium)     ← Created first
// 2. Fix critical bug (High)           ← Created second  
// 3. Refactor old code (Low)           ← Created third
// 4. Review code (High)                ← Created fourth

// Result: User confusion and loss of trust in the system
// Note: The same problem occurs with drag-and-drop sorting!
Impact: The generated output doesn't match what the user sees on screen, creating confusion and undermining user confidence. This affects both automatic sorting (by predefined column) and manual sorting (drag-and-drop).
Attempted Workarounds (All Inadequate)
Workaround Approach Implementation Problems Status
Manual Sequence Field Add a "Sequence" number field that users manually update - Requires users to manually type numbers
- Defeats purpose of drag-and-drop sorting
- Doesn't work with predefined column sorting
- Prone to errors and gaps
- Poor user experience 		✗ Not viable for real-world use
Sort in Deluge Instead Use Deluge's .sort() function on subform collection - Only works if you know the predefined sort column
- Cannot replicate custom drag-and-drop order at all
- Assumes single-column sorting
- Doesn't help if user needs multi-column sort
- Still a workaround for what should be automatic 		⚠ Partial solution for predefined column only
JavaScript Widget Build custom UI using JavaScript Widget instead of native form - Requires abandoning native form entirely
- Must rebuild entire subform interface from scratch
- Significant development and maintenance overhead
- Loses all native form features and functionality
- Defeats the purpose of using Creator's built-in forms 		✗ Not viable - abandons native functionality
What Should Happen Instead
Proposed Solution 1: Display Order Field Add a system-generated field that reflects the current display order: 
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order")
{
    // Process tasks in the order the user sees them
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Proposed Solution 2: Sort State Information Provide access to the current sort configuration and type: 
sort_info = input.Task_Subform.getSortState();
// Returns: 
// {"type": "predefined_column", "column": "Priority", "direction": "desc"}
// or {"type": "drag_and_drop"}

if(sort_info.get("type") == "drag_and_drop")
{
    // Drag-and-drop enabled, access via display_order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order");
}
else if(sort_info.get("type") == "predefined_column")
{
    // Predefined column sorting, replicate that sort
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy(sort_info.get("column"), sort_info.get("direction"));
}
else
{
    // No sorting configured, use creation order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform;
}
Proposed Solution 3: Built-in Sort Preservation Automatically update a hidden "display_sequence" field whenever the display order changes (whether through predefined column sorting or drag-and-drop), making it accessible to Deluge: 
// System automatically maintains display_sequence field for both sorting methods
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_sequence")
{
    // Always iterates in display order
    // Works regardless of sorting method (predefined column or drag-and-drop)
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Any of these solutions would bridge the gap between UI capabilities and backend automation for both sorting methods.
Real-World Impact
This limitation affects critical business processes:
  • Project Management (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts tasks by priority, but automated status reports generate in creation order, not priority order
  • Meeting Agendas (Drag and Drop): Users arrange agenda items manually via drag-and-drop, but generated PDF shows items in original entry order
  • Invoice Line Items (Drag and Drop): Users reorder line items for presentation purposes, but printed invoices ignore the arrangement
  • Course Curriculum (Predefined Column or Drag and Drop): Instructors order lessons logically (either by lesson number or manual arrangement), but student-facing materials display in database order
  • Checklist Applications (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts by due date or priority, but automated reminders follow original creation order
  • Product Catalogs (Drag and Drop): Users arrange products by preference or featured status, but exports and integrations ignore the curation

User Experience Impact: Whether using predefined column sorting (automatic) or drag-and-drop sorting (manual), when users see data in a particular order on screen and the system's automation ignores it, it creates frustration and erodes trust. Users expect that if they can see data in a certain order, the system should be able to work with it in that order.

Request to Zoho Team

Can this be addressed in a future update?

This is a fundamental disconnect between what users see in the UI and what developers can access in code. Both sorting methods (predefined column and drag-and-drop) suffer from this limitation. The current implementation forces developers to choose between:

1. Disable Sorting
Remove sorting capabilities (both predefined column and drag-and-drop) to avoid user confusion when automation doesn't respect display order 		2. Accept Mismatch
Allow users to sort but acknowledge that automation will produce unexpected results

Neither option is acceptable for professional applications.

Community Input Requested: Has anyone else encountered this limitation or found a reliable workaround? This affects any application where subform ordering matters to end users.


    Nederlandse Hulpbronnen


      • Recent Topics

      • Related to zoho survey

        Hi team. I want to know something regarding zoho survey question builder. I have two questions each of dropdown (One answer) - question type. In the first question, there are 16 answer choices and in the second question, there are 3 answer choices. For

      • 60 Days Into Zoho - Tiktok Branding Startup -7 Questions?!

        Wsp Everybody I co-own a TikTok Branding / Consulting Startup & have been using Zoho for the past 60 days - Am now looking to make our overall operations & processes more Efficient & Effective! Curious to know how others are using the platform & what's

      • Text Message

        When trying to sent a text message, it says its an error i should contact a zoho agent

      • Zoho POS is now available for Canadian retailers

        Hey everyone, We're excited to introduce the all-new Canadian edition of Zoho POS, which helps retail businesses simplify and manage their end-to-end business operations. Start by signing up and exploring the 15-day free trial. Sign up now How does Zoho

      • Payroll In Canada

        Hi, When can we expect to have payroll in Canada with books 

      • Mass update to change or shift all project dates and keep project structure + shift all sub-tasks dates with main tasks

        Most users would expect that if they change the start date of their project then that will be reflected inside the actual project and any project structure would be retained.  Additionally if a task list with associated sub-tasks is moved, most users would expect that those sub-tasks would also be moved along with their parent task.  This is not the case. For a total Project shift of dates: * the start and end date from > "Edit Project" page can have a radio button added to "shift all project tasks

      • Closing Accounting Periods - Invoice/Posting dates

        Hi, I have seen in another thread but I'm unsure on how the 'transaction locking' works with regards to new and old transactions. When producing monthly accounts if I close December 24 accounts on 8th Jan 25 will transaction locking prevent me from posting

      • In-person ZUG Meetups for Real Estate Professionals - US Q1 2026

        The Real Estate Zoho User Group is going on a multi-city, in-person meetup tour across the US, and we’d love to see you there! These meetups are a great opportunity to: Connect with fellow real estate professionals using Zoho Share challenges and discover

      • Zoho CRM custom fields not showing in zoho creator

        Hi Team, I have created a Products form with Zoho CRM integration and connected it to Products module of CRM. But when I see the reports of Products in Zoho creator then I am not able to see custom fields of Products module. Only standard fields of Products

      • Sending email notifications based on language

        Hello. I would like to know how we can bypass the default notifications (which are just in English) for when a ticket is created/replied to/closed, to be in other languages, based on the language field in the ticket? I can create other email templates,

      • Zoho Error: This Operation has been restricted. Please contact support-as@zohocorp.com for further details

        Hello There, l tried to verify my domain (florindagoreti.com.br) and its shows this error: This Operation has been restricted. Please contact support-as@zohocorp.com for further details. Screenshot Given Below -  please check what went wrong. Thanks

      • Download a file from within a zoho creator widget

        I have a widget running in Zoho Creator , it displays uploaded documents in a table file, and I have added a download link in the view. ( The widget is created with html, css and javascript). I do not succeed in getting the download working. Do I have

      • Correlated subqueries not supported in Zoho Analytics. This creates huge limitations

        Running into a major limitation in Zoho Analytics: correlated subqueries simply don’t work, even in completely standard SQL patterns inside a JOIN. Example: LEFT JOIN "Bills" b ON d."Id" = b."Deal ID" AND EXISTS ( SELECT 1 FROM "Bill

      • Zoho / Outlook Calendar sync

        The current Marketplace -> Microsoft -> Meetings integration needs 2 changes. 1. The current language for the Two-Way sync option should be changed. It currently states, "Sync both your Zoho CRM Calendar and Office 365 Calendar meetings with each other."

      • Email content just contain 'OK' ,not what we expect

        create campaign API URL: https://campaigns.zoho.com/api/v1.1/createCampaign req params: {'campaignname': 'General_Outreach_d0cfc415-43aa-4b96-bb09-558e76a3dda3_50_20251117_214806_660', 'from_email': 'admin@allinmedia.ai', 'subject': 'ALL IN MEDIA', 'list_details':

      • Possible to connect Zoho CRM's Sandbox with Zoho Creator's Sandbox?

        We are making some big changes on our CRM so we are testing it out in CRM's Sandbox. We also have a Zoho Creator app that we need to test. Is it possible to connect Zoho CRM's Sandbox to Zoho Creator's Sandbox so that I can perform those tests?

      • Reopen ticket

        Hello! Can I reopen a ticket just using the API ticket/sendReply ? What's the rules to do it? I'm trying but it doesn't reopen the ticket, it just send the reply

      • Allow Admins to Transfer Ownership of Their Own Files & Folders

        Hi Zoho WorkDrive Team, Hope you are doing well. We would like to request an important enhancement to the ownership-transfer functionality in Zoho WorkDrive, specifically regarding administrator capabilities. As administrators, we have the ability to

      • Tip#46: Capture accurate log hours

        Hello everyone, Use the newly introduced timer settings that will streamline the usage of timers and help admins or workspace owners to manage the time entries of the workspace users better. Check out the below mentioned timer settings added to the Timesheet

      • Moving to app-specific authentication for Google integrations

        Hello everyone, We’re making an important change to how Google integrations work in our platform. Until now, we used a common Google project across Zoho to enable integrations like Google Drive, Calendar, and more. Going forward, we’ll be moving to an

      • Lost the ability to sort by ticket owner

        Hi all, in the last week or so, we have lost the ability to sort tickets by Ticket Owner. Unlike the other columns which we can hover over and click on to sort, Ticket Owner is no longer clickable. Is it just us, or are other customers seeing this too?

      • How Can i put a form in Zobot

        Hi,how can i integrate a form which has a multiple options to choose from.the form should be opened or displayed by zobot after it meets a requirement in the conversation. Thanks in advance !

      • Playback and Management Enhancements for Zoho Quartz Recordings

        Hello Zoho Team, We hope you're all doing well. We would like to submit a feature request related to Zoho Quartz, the tool used to record and share browser sessions with Zoho Support. 🎯 Current Functionality As of now, Zoho Quartz allows users to record

      • Zoho Analytics - Feature Request For Time Based Data Source Fetch

        Hi Analytics Team, I have a client using Zoho CRM and they want a weekly report at 4:30pm every Friday, emailed to the sales team showing a pie chart of Closed Won Deals for that week. This is easy to achieve in Analytics but not so easy to ensure the

      • Which user's capacity is used for Shared Mailbox storage?

        We use shared mailboxes at our company, and their size is increasing daily. Which user(s)'s total mailbox limit is being used up by this space?

      • Inserting the current date / time

        I'd like to use Zoho Notebook as a log - so it would be great to be able to insert the current date and time at the beginning (or end) of each my log/journal entries - or wherever I want. Something simple, like pressing a button/icon to insert it wherever my text cursor is. It could be formatted like "Mon Dec 11, 2017 - 11:43p". 

      • Migrate data from old to new account

        Hy, Have one Old Zoho Notebook Account with Data , want to migrate that whole Data to New Zoho Notebook Account which is in Zoho One . Is that possible ? If Yes then how?

      • Campaign editor overrides href value

        I've been trying to insert a deep link in an email campaign so recipients can directly open a native app on their device. My deep link looks something like "myapp://". The options to insert links in the campaign editor are limited to strict urls, emails,

      • how to add subform over sigma in the CRM

        my new module don't have any subform available any way to add this from sigma or from the crm

      • Bug Report and Suggestions for Improvement in Zoho Applications

        Hi Zoho Team, I’d like to report a few bugs and improvement suggestions I’ve noticed while using Zoho products: Zoho Cliq Video Call: The camera sometimes turns off automatically during video calls. This seems to be a bug — please check and fix it. Zoho

      • Canvas Flex Box containers should not require a width/height.

        Flexbox containers are often used as organizational concepts, to ease re-flow on mobile etc. - I cannot use % for flexbox W or H - I cannot omit W or H This means that the content cannot dictate, and a Flexbox container cannot be used merely as an organizational

      • Zoho Desk Android app update: Filter enhancement, Save Filters

        Hello everyone! We have now enhanced the filter section on the ticket listing screen of Zoho Desk Android app as it is on the web(desk.zoho.com). Also, we have introduced an option to save filters for tickets on the mobile app. You can easily apply, rename,

      • Very long loading times | bad performance [ZOHO DC: EU]

        Hello there, we have recently noticed that the loading times have become extremely long when retrieving tickets and ticket details. For example, I open any ticket and get the following view. The subject and standard information (ticket owner, status etc.)

      • Zia Profile Summary now supports six languages and responds faster

        After numerous customer requests, we’ve expanded Zia Profile Summary to do more than just summarize resumes quickly. It can now summarize them in six different languages and deliver results even faster. What’s New 1. Extended language support Zia can

      • Introducing Zoho Show Android 3.0

        Good ideas need the right space to grow. They deserve tools that move as fast as your thoughts and make creating feel effortless. And that is why we are bringing you Zoho Show Android 3.0! From a brand-new look and smoother navigation to improved collaboration

      • Properly Capture Dropdowns & Hover Elements When Recording a Window/Tab

        Hi Zoho WorkDrive Team, Hope you are doing great. We encountered a limitation when recording a selected window or browser tab: Certain UI elements, such as dropdown lists, hover menus, and overlays, are not captured unless we record the entire screen.

      • Peppol integration zoho invoicefu

        Hi, Belgium will require Peppol invoicing as of 2026. I found that this is being prepared for Zoho books, to be released in Sep 2025. Will Zoho Invoice get this functionality too? I like the Invoice app for my part-time side business as bike mechanic

      • Allow Recording Only a Selected Portion of the Screen

        Hi Zoho WorkDrive Team, Hope you are doing well. We would like to request a more flexible recording option in Zoho WorkDrive. At the moment, we can record either the entire screen or a specific window/tab — but not a custom selected portion of the screen

      • Restricting Calendar View to Working Hours

        Hi: I'm trying to implement a calendar which displays all of my customer appointments.  Currently, the calendar shows all 24 hours of the day.  Is there a way to restrict the hours to simply the times my business is open? Thanks!

      • Add Camera Background Blur During Recording

        Hi Zoho WorkDrive Team, Hope everything is well. We would like to request an enhancement to the video recording feature in Zoho WorkDrive. Currently, the camera preview displayed during a recording does not support background blur. This is an essential

      • Next Page