Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

As highlighted in this community post, we still have to deal with the significant limitation of not being able to access the user-sorted order of subform rows through Deluge. This creates a major disconnect between the UI capabilities and backend automation, and I'm hoping the Zoho team can address this in a future update.

The Issue
Zoho Creator now offers two distinct subform sorting methods:
  • Drag and drop: Manual, user-controlled sorting where users reorder rows by dragging them into their preferred sequence. The sort order is arbitrary and based on user preference, not field values.
  • By predefined column: Automatic, system-controlled sorting based on a specified column that happens whenever the record is created or updated. The sort order is predictable and based on field values.
However, these sorted orders are completely invisible to Deluge scripts. When you iterate through subform rows using for each loops, you get the records in their original creation order—regardless of whether the subform uses drag-and-drop sorting or automatic column-based sorting.

The Problem
Regardless of which sorting method is configured, the display order is trapped in the UI layer—Deluge has no way to access it.
Sorting Method What User Sees What Deluge Sees Result
Drag and Drop
User drags Row 5 to position 1
Row 5 appears at the top of the subform Row 5 is still in position 5 (creation order) ✗ Custom order completely ignored
Predefined Column
Subform set to sort by "Priority" (High to Low)
Rows automatically displayed in priority order after save Original creation order (Row 1, Row 2, Row 3...) ✗ Automatic sorting not reflected
Either Method
User clicks "Generate Report" button
Expects report to match displayed order Report generated in creation order ✗ Output doesn't match user's view
Current Limitations
Regardless of which sorting method is enabled, you cannot:
  • Loop through subform rows in the display order (whether drag-and-drop or predefined column)
  • Access any "sort order" or "display position" field
  • Determine which column is used for automatic sorting
  • Detect if drag-and-drop sorting is enabled
  • Update a field (like "Sequence Number") to reflect the sorted order
  • Generate custom reports in Pages or Deluge that respect the subform's display order
Important Note: Record Templates do preserve the re-sorted order when generating PDFs or documents. This means basic reporting through record templates works correctly. However, for any advanced reporting—such as custom HTML in Deluge, Pages, or programmatic data processing—the sorted order is completely inaccessible, making it impossible to replicate what record templates can do.
Example: The Disconnect
Here's a real-world scenario that demonstrates the problem:
// SCENARIO: Task subform is configured to sort by "Priority" column (High to Low)
// This is automatic sorting - happens when record is created/updated
// User clicks a button to "Generate Prioritized Task List"

// What the developer writes:
for each task in input.Task_Subform
{
    task_list = task_list + task.Task_Name + "\n";
}

// EXPECTED OUTPUT (what user sees on screen after save):
// 1. Fix critical bug (High)
// 2. Review code (High)  
// 3. Update documentation (Medium)
// 4. Refactor old code (Low)

// ACTUAL OUTPUT (what Deluge produces):
// 1. Update documentation (Medium)     ← Created first
// 2. Fix critical bug (High)           ← Created second  
// 3. Refactor old code (Low)           ← Created third
// 4. Review code (High)                ← Created fourth

// Result: User confusion and loss of trust in the system
// Note: The same problem occurs with drag-and-drop sorting!
Impact: The generated output doesn't match what the user sees on screen, creating confusion and undermining user confidence. This affects both automatic sorting (by predefined column) and manual sorting (drag-and-drop).
Attempted Workarounds (All Inadequate)
Workaround Approach Implementation Problems Status
Manual Sequence Field Add a "Sequence" number field that users manually update - Requires users to manually type numbers
- Defeats purpose of drag-and-drop sorting
- Doesn't work with predefined column sorting
- Prone to errors and gaps
- Poor user experience
✗ Not viable for real-world use
Sort in Deluge Instead Use Deluge's .sort() function on subform collection - Only works if you know the predefined sort column
- Cannot replicate custom drag-and-drop order at all
- Assumes single-column sorting
- Doesn't help if user needs multi-column sort
- Still a workaround for what should be automatic
⚠ Partial solution for predefined column only
JavaScript Widget Build custom UI using JavaScript Widget instead of native form - Requires abandoning native form entirely
- Must rebuild entire subform interface from scratch
- Significant development and maintenance overhead
- Loses all native form features and functionality
- Defeats the purpose of using Creator's built-in forms
✗ Not viable - abandons native functionality
What Should Happen Instead
Proposed Solution 1: Display Order Field Add a system-generated field that reflects the current display order:
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order")
{
    // Process tasks in the order the user sees them
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Proposed Solution 2: Sort State Information Provide access to the current sort configuration and type:
sort_info = input.Task_Subform.getSortState();
// Returns: 
// {"type": "predefined_column", "column": "Priority", "direction": "desc"}
// or {"type": "drag_and_drop"}

if(sort_info.get("type") == "drag_and_drop")
{
    // Drag-and-drop enabled, access via display_order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order");
}
else if(sort_info.get("type") == "predefined_column")
{
    // Predefined column sorting, replicate that sort
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy(sort_info.get("column"), sort_info.get("direction"));
}
else
{
    // No sorting configured, use creation order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform;
}
Proposed Solution 3: Built-in Sort Preservation Automatically update a hidden "display_sequence" field whenever the display order changes (whether through predefined column sorting or drag-and-drop), making it accessible to Deluge:
// System automatically maintains display_sequence field for both sorting methods
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_sequence")
{
    // Always iterates in display order
    // Works regardless of sorting method (predefined column or drag-and-drop)
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Any of these solutions would bridge the gap between UI capabilities and backend automation for both sorting methods.
Real-World Impact
This limitation affects critical business processes:
  • Project Management (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts tasks by priority, but automated status reports generate in creation order, not priority order
  • Meeting Agendas (Drag and Drop): Users arrange agenda items manually via drag-and-drop, but generated PDF shows items in original entry order
  • Invoice Line Items (Drag and Drop): Users reorder line items for presentation purposes, but printed invoices ignore the arrangement
  • Course Curriculum (Predefined Column or Drag and Drop): Instructors order lessons logically (either by lesson number or manual arrangement), but student-facing materials display in database order
  • Checklist Applications (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts by due date or priority, but automated reminders follow original creation order
  • Product Catalogs (Drag and Drop): Users arrange products by preference or featured status, but exports and integrations ignore the curation

User Experience Impact: Whether using predefined column sorting (automatic) or drag-and-drop sorting (manual), when users see data in a particular order on screen and the system's automation ignores it, it creates frustration and erodes trust. Users expect that if they can see data in a certain order, the system should be able to work with it in that order.

Request to Zoho Team

Can this be addressed in a future update?

This is a fundamental disconnect between what users see in the UI and what developers can access in code. Both sorting methods (predefined column and drag-and-drop) suffer from this limitation. The current implementation forces developers to choose between:

1. Disable Sorting
Remove sorting capabilities (both predefined column and drag-and-drop) to avoid user confusion when automation doesn't respect display order
2. Accept Mismatch
Allow users to sort but acknowledge that automation will produce unexpected results

Neither option is acceptable for professional applications.

Community Input Requested: Has anyone else encountered this limitation or found a reliable workaround? This affects any application where subform ordering matters to end users.


    Access your files securely from anywhere







                            Zoho Developer Community




                                                  • Desk Community Learning Series


                                                  • Digest


                                                  • Functions


                                                  • Meetups


                                                  • Kbase


                                                  • Resources


                                                  • Glossary


                                                  • Desk Marketplace


                                                  • MVP Corner


                                                  • Word of the Day


                                                  • Ask the Experts





                                                            Manage your brands on social media



                                                                  Zoho TeamInbox Resources



                                                                      Zoho CRM Plus Resources

                                                                        Zoho Books Resources


                                                                          Zoho Subscriptions Resources

                                                                            Zoho Projects Resources


                                                                              Zoho Sprints Resources


                                                                                Qntrl Resources


                                                                                  Zoho Creator Resources



                                                                                      Zoho CRM Resources

                                                                                      • CRM Community Learning Series

                                                                                        CRM Community Learning Series


                                                                                      • Kaizen

                                                                                        Kaizen

                                                                                      • Functions

                                                                                        Functions

                                                                                      • Meetups

                                                                                        Meetups

                                                                                      • Kbase

                                                                                        Kbase

                                                                                      • Resources

                                                                                        Resources

                                                                                      • Digest

                                                                                        Digest

                                                                                      • CRM Marketplace

                                                                                        CRM Marketplace

                                                                                      • MVP Corner

                                                                                        MVP Corner









                                                                                          Design. Discuss. Deliver.

                                                                                          Create visually engaging stories with Zoho Show.

                                                                                          Get Started Now


                                                                                            Zoho Show Resources

                                                                                              Zoho Writer

                                                                                              Get Started. Write Away!

                                                                                              Writer is a powerful online word processor, designed for collaborative work.

                                                                                                Zoho CRM コンテンツ



                                                                                                  Nederlandse Hulpbronnen


                                                                                                      ご検討中の方




                                                                                                              • Recent Topics

                                                                                                              • Zoho CRM new calander format cannot strikethrough completed task

                                                                                                                Hi, Recently there is a new format for calendar within Zoho CRM However, found out that a completed task will not cross out or strikethrough like previous format. Without strikethrough, it will be difficult to identify which task is still in Open status.
                                                                                                              • Employees not Users

                                                                                                                Hello, We are a construction company that has +180 employees and most of them are in remote location working onsite with no access to internet. Is it possible that we have data stored for all employees but have only 5-10 users who will be in charge of entering employees data? or do we have to pay for all +180 employees? even though they won't be using the system?
                                                                                                              • Zoho people generatimg pdf

                                                                                                                Hello , now i want to make a customm button in zoho people that is inside a deduction module , that fetches all the records and generate a pdf with a template that i have done in the mail merges template , i was told that i have to upload template on
                                                                                                              • zohorecruit.com career form postcode bug

                                                                                                                Dear, When I select a postcode from the drop down on a zohorecruit.com career form, the street text field is automatically filled with the name of the city, which should not happen. Any idea how I can fix this? Thanks, Bart
                                                                                                              • Office-365-agenda and Microsoft Teams Integration

                                                                                                                Dear, I have a trial version of Zoho Recruit and trying to evaluate the Microsoft Teams Integration in Zoho Recruit. After registering with my Office 365 account and checking the result of the registration/sign-in at https://mysignins.microsoft.com/ (which
                                                                                                              • How to add Connector in developer platform zoho?

                                                                                                                Hi, I am working on creating an Extension, and part of the development is to retrieve Email templates. In my CRM instance I can invokeURL by creating Zoho OAuth connection and get the template. But developer platform does not provide Zoho OAuth or any
                                                                                                              • How to archive Lost/Junk Leads so sales reps don’t see them, but keep them for reporting?

                                                                                                                Hi everyone, In our Zoho CRM we have two Lead Status values: Lost Lead and Junk Lead. What I want to achieve is: When a lead is marked as Lost or Junk, it should disappear from my sales reps’ Lead views (so they only see active leads). At the same time,
                                                                                                              • Zoho CRM Canvas Copy Original Layout

                                                                                                                Hello all, I want to use Canvas to make small changes to certain views, not to make huge changes. Is it possible to copy the original Zoho layout and set-up and start from there? I checked and all I can find are some templates which are far from the original
                                                                                                              • Revenue Management: #5 Revenue Recognition in SaaS

                                                                                                                If you're building or running a SaaS business, you've probably encountered this. You get paid upfront for a subscription and a one-time onboarding fee, but you end up with confusion about when to consider it revenue. Can I book all of it now? Should I
                                                                                                              • Zoho Learn Course Access Issue

                                                                                                                One of the learners in a specific course can't see any lessons. They are registered as both a user and learner for this course in Zoo Learn. What could be the reason?
                                                                                                              • ZOHOLICS Japan 2025 開催のお知らせ(再投稿)

                                                                                                                【コミュニティユーザーの皆さまへお知らせ】 Zoho 最大のユーザーイベント「ZOHOLICS Japan 2025」を9月19日(金)に開催します。 AI活用に関する特別講演、ユーザー事例、Zoho 製品の活用例のご紹介など、Zoholicsならではのセッションをご用意しています。 Zoho コミュニティ開催のMeetupとはまた違った雰囲気のイベントです。 ご都合のつく方はお気軽にご参加ください✨ 詳細はこちら https://events.zoho.jp/zoholics2025#/?affl=forumpost2
                                                                                                              • Phone Number format for Bulk Upload via csv for Zoho Sign

                                                                                                                What is the phone number format that we need to use for a bulk recipient upload via csv in zoho sign, should the country code be included for ex if its US should it be +18889007865 ior 18889007865 or without country code 8889007865? the sample csv provided
                                                                                                              • Filter Page Elements By Selectable Date Range

                                                                                                                I have created a basic Page that will serve as a client dashboard with elements that will provide simple counts & sums of data in reports. There are no reports or forms added to the page, just elements. It currently functions as needed, but shows the
                                                                                                              • Can’t Enter my Notebook is Locked

                                                                                                                I’ve been using Notebook for taking notes at my college for a month and I never signed in and I never established a password. Today I tried to enter the app after the update and it asked me for a password. I need to access to my notes urgently and I can’t
                                                                                                              • Send Email Directly to Channel

                                                                                                                Hi, We are coming from Slack. In Slack each channel has a unique Email address that you can send emails too. I currently forward a specific type of email from my Gmail InBox directly do this channel for Verification Codes so my team doesn't have to ask
                                                                                                              • Secure your external sharing process with OTP Authentication

                                                                                                                For any business, it's crucial to share files externally in a way that is both secure and controlled. Let's say you want to share confidential data with your partners and vendors. You must ensure that only your intended recipients can access the shared
                                                                                                              • Items attribute questions

                                                                                                                Many of my items have attributes, such as size and color. How can I add new fields to the "New Items" screen to capture that in my Purchase Orders, Items, and Sales Order pages? I only see these attribute fields when adding an Item Group. Also, on the
                                                                                                              • Is there a way to search mail for items you haven't yet responded to?

                                                                                                                I'm trying to create a search to show emails that haven't been responded to and that have also been assigned a tag or label. Is there a way to search for the inverse of replied?
                                                                                                              • Subtotals per Header

                                                                                                                Hey, we would like to display subtotals per header in our invoices:
                                                                                                              • upgrade storage

                                                                                                                how to upgrade my storage
                                                                                                              • Linking items from books and subscription

                                                                                                                Linking books and subscription It is a pity that it is not possible to associate with a product an article present in ZohoBooks This would make it possible to manage products composed of a nomenclature of articles of books
                                                                                                              • Add the ability to view number of hours planned for a workorder while in the Dispatch Console

                                                                                                                Hi Zoho, When dispatching a work order through the Dispatch Console, there's currently no way to view the number of planned hours for the service tasks associated with that specific work order. Having to click into the details each time to check planned
                                                                                                              • Uploading Files from uploads api

                                                                                                                I tried uploading the image from the API call but its giving me unauthorized error even i have given valid token in header. After uploading i need that id to pass in create ticket api uploads but its not uploading that file. Please help me out in th
                                                                                                              • Change format of quantity format

                                                                                                                Hi,  I would like to change the qunatity format from 1,00 to 1.  Is this possible?   thanks!
                                                                                                              • square up and Zoho books

                                                                                                                Since we set up the app connection between square up and Zoho books we have realised that when the amounts are getting transferred Zoho is adding VAT again making the numbers 20% more than they should be. We have checked our settings and they VAT/ Tax
                                                                                                              • How to provide Access rights to specific Bank accounts

                                                                                                                We have several bank accounts. I want to provide certain members access to only 2-3 accounts. It appears that when I give permissions, they are for ALL bank accounts. How do I do that?
                                                                                                              • Errors Getting a Bank Transaction

                                                                                                                Using Postman(for testing), I am receiving errors when attempting to get a single bank transaction. I am able to receive the list of bank transactions with https://www.zohoapis.com/books/v3/banktransactions/?organization_id={org_id} but when I try to
                                                                                                              • Subscriptions Plans and CRM Products Integration?

                                                                                                                Is there any way to set up plans and pricing in Zoho Subscriptions and have those available as Products in the CRM? We are trying to set up the CRM and the Products seem to be more geared toward selling products that are not subscription based.  So if we sell annual or monthly contracts which are $10/seat/month, I can set this up as a plan in Subscriptions, but how can I set the same thing up in the CRM for the salespeople to sell/quote? What is the best practice for setting up the CRM Products to
                                                                                                              • Mapping Zoho Subscription Plans and Products to CRM and Books

                                                                                                                We have products that are one time products and subscription products.   1) We would like to have the ability to create an opportunity in CRM that includes both one-time charge products and subscription products.  Currently the only way of creating a subscription product is by defining a "Product->Plan" hierarchy in Zoho Subscription.  It appears that the only SYNC between Subscription and CRM is around contacts and the Product->Plan hierarchy doesn't sync to CRM, thus, you would need a duplicate
                                                                                                              • Bulk update fields based on date

                                                                                                                Hi! I need all the quotes with "Quote Stage" set to "Next Year" to update to "Draft" every January 8 (every year). Can you help?
                                                                                                              • Target for a campaign

                                                                                                                Hi, Hope you can help me. I need to create a report (for a marketing campaign) that combines Deals and Contacts to export all the contacts with closed deals. I can easily do that, what I cannot do is to remove from the target the contacts that have more
                                                                                                              • Zoho Desk + Jira integration - Email notifications and comments posted by administrator instead of real user

                                                                                                                Dear All, I set up the integration under my admin account, and now when users leave comments in Jira (to created tickets in Zoho Desk), the email notifications show that the ‘Administrator’ left a comment, not a real user. The same happens in the ticket
                                                                                                              • Celebrating the power of visuals

                                                                                                                On World Photography Day, we would like to highlight the power of visuals in customer service. Visuals promote learning and understanding in less time. A photograph can rekindle a memory, convey more than words, and give a fresh perspective. How does
                                                                                                              • Blocking / black listing customers

                                                                                                                Hi, We have a situation, we observed that certain customers are blocking multiple appointments with our advsiors but not showing up. Some of these are repeat offenders. This leads to those service hours getting blocked and not available for genuine customers.
                                                                                                              • Feature Request: Email Templates for notifications accross all services

                                                                                                                Currently in Zoho Bookings, email notifications (such as booking confirmations, reminders, and cancellations) must be customized individually for each service. This becomes time-consuming and error-prone when managing multiple services that require consistent
                                                                                                              • Approval-based booking with Zoho Creator and Zoho Bookings

                                                                                                                Hi community members, We have developed a workaround for approval-based booking using Zoho Creator and Zoho Bookings! This provides a temporary solution as we work on the native feature, and it's useful for anyone needing an approval workflow when confirming
                                                                                                              • Member Accounts in Related List

                                                                                                                Hi Team, Currently, when a parent account is associated with an account in FSM, there is no related list displaying the associated member accounts under the parent account’s related list section. To view member accounts, I have to manually search using
                                                                                                              • how do i remove a specific Zoho Service from my account

                                                                                                                I no longer need Zoho CRM, ZRM Assist nor ZRM BugTracker. How do I remove them from the list of apps for my account?
                                                                                                              • I Want migarte all invoice details to zoho sheets

                                                                                                                I want to migrate all existing invoice details to Zoho Sheet, and automatically update the sheet whenever a new invoice is created.
                                                                                                              • were can i find my invoices i need this for my accountant

                                                                                                                were can i find my invoices i need this for my accountant, how can i get id direct to my email?
                                                                                                              • Next Page