Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

As highlighted in this community post, we still have to deal with the significant limitation of not being able to access the user-sorted order of subform rows through Deluge. This creates a major disconnect between the UI capabilities and backend automation, and I'm hoping the Zoho team can address this in a future update.

The Issue
Zoho Creator now offers two distinct subform sorting methods:
  • Drag and drop: Manual, user-controlled sorting where users reorder rows by dragging them into their preferred sequence. The sort order is arbitrary and based on user preference, not field values.
  • By predefined column: Automatic, system-controlled sorting based on a specified column that happens whenever the record is created or updated. The sort order is predictable and based on field values.
However, these sorted orders are completely invisible to Deluge scripts. When you iterate through subform rows using for each loops, you get the records in their original creation order—regardless of whether the subform uses drag-and-drop sorting or automatic column-based sorting.

The Problem
Regardless of which sorting method is configured, the display order is trapped in the UI layer—Deluge has no way to access it.
Sorting Method What User Sees What Deluge Sees Result
Drag and Drop
User drags Row 5 to position 1
Row 5 appears at the top of the subform Row 5 is still in position 5 (creation order) ✗ Custom order completely ignored
Predefined Column
Subform set to sort by "Priority" (High to Low)
Rows automatically displayed in priority order after save Original creation order (Row 1, Row 2, Row 3...) ✗ Automatic sorting not reflected
Either Method
User clicks "Generate Report" button
Expects report to match displayed order Report generated in creation order ✗ Output doesn't match user's view
Current Limitations
Regardless of which sorting method is enabled, you cannot:
  • Loop through subform rows in the display order (whether drag-and-drop or predefined column)
  • Access any "sort order" or "display position" field
  • Determine which column is used for automatic sorting
  • Detect if drag-and-drop sorting is enabled
  • Update a field (like "Sequence Number") to reflect the sorted order
  • Generate custom reports in Pages or Deluge that respect the subform's display order
Important Note: Record Templates do preserve the re-sorted order when generating PDFs or documents. This means basic reporting through record templates works correctly. However, for any advanced reporting—such as custom HTML in Deluge, Pages, or programmatic data processing—the sorted order is completely inaccessible, making it impossible to replicate what record templates can do.
Example: The Disconnect
Here's a real-world scenario that demonstrates the problem:
// SCENARIO: Task subform is configured to sort by "Priority" column (High to Low)
// This is automatic sorting - happens when record is created/updated
// User clicks a button to "Generate Prioritized Task List"

// What the developer writes:
for each task in input.Task_Subform
{
    task_list = task_list + task.Task_Name + "\n";
}

// EXPECTED OUTPUT (what user sees on screen after save):
// 1. Fix critical bug (High)
// 2. Review code (High)  
// 3. Update documentation (Medium)
// 4. Refactor old code (Low)

// ACTUAL OUTPUT (what Deluge produces):
// 1. Update documentation (Medium)     ← Created first
// 2. Fix critical bug (High)           ← Created second  
// 3. Refactor old code (Low)           ← Created third
// 4. Review code (High)                ← Created fourth

// Result: User confusion and loss of trust in the system
// Note: The same problem occurs with drag-and-drop sorting!
Impact: The generated output doesn't match what the user sees on screen, creating confusion and undermining user confidence. This affects both automatic sorting (by predefined column) and manual sorting (drag-and-drop).
Attempted Workarounds (All Inadequate)
Workaround Approach Implementation Problems Status
Manual Sequence Field Add a "Sequence" number field that users manually update - Requires users to manually type numbers
- Defeats purpose of drag-and-drop sorting
- Doesn't work with predefined column sorting
- Prone to errors and gaps
- Poor user experience
✗ Not viable for real-world use
Sort in Deluge Instead Use Deluge's .sort() function on subform collection - Only works if you know the predefined sort column
- Cannot replicate custom drag-and-drop order at all
- Assumes single-column sorting
- Doesn't help if user needs multi-column sort
- Still a workaround for what should be automatic
⚠ Partial solution for predefined column only
JavaScript Widget Build custom UI using JavaScript Widget instead of native form - Requires abandoning native form entirely
- Must rebuild entire subform interface from scratch
- Significant development and maintenance overhead
- Loses all native form features and functionality
- Defeats the purpose of using Creator's built-in forms
✗ Not viable - abandons native functionality
What Should Happen Instead
Proposed Solution 1: Display Order Field Add a system-generated field that reflects the current display order:
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order")
{
    // Process tasks in the order the user sees them
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Proposed Solution 2: Sort State Information Provide access to the current sort configuration and type:
sort_info = input.Task_Subform.getSortState();
// Returns: 
// {"type": "predefined_column", "column": "Priority", "direction": "desc"}
// or {"type": "drag_and_drop"}

if(sort_info.get("type") == "drag_and_drop")
{
    // Drag-and-drop enabled, access via display_order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order");
}
else if(sort_info.get("type") == "predefined_column")
{
    // Predefined column sorting, replicate that sort
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy(sort_info.get("column"), sort_info.get("direction"));
}
else
{
    // No sorting configured, use creation order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform;
}
Proposed Solution 3: Built-in Sort Preservation Automatically update a hidden "display_sequence" field whenever the display order changes (whether through predefined column sorting or drag-and-drop), making it accessible to Deluge:
// System automatically maintains display_sequence field for both sorting methods
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_sequence")
{
    // Always iterates in display order
    // Works regardless of sorting method (predefined column or drag-and-drop)
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Any of these solutions would bridge the gap between UI capabilities and backend automation for both sorting methods.
Real-World Impact
This limitation affects critical business processes:
  • Project Management (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts tasks by priority, but automated status reports generate in creation order, not priority order
  • Meeting Agendas (Drag and Drop): Users arrange agenda items manually via drag-and-drop, but generated PDF shows items in original entry order
  • Invoice Line Items (Drag and Drop): Users reorder line items for presentation purposes, but printed invoices ignore the arrangement
  • Course Curriculum (Predefined Column or Drag and Drop): Instructors order lessons logically (either by lesson number or manual arrangement), but student-facing materials display in database order
  • Checklist Applications (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts by due date or priority, but automated reminders follow original creation order
  • Product Catalogs (Drag and Drop): Users arrange products by preference or featured status, but exports and integrations ignore the curation

User Experience Impact: Whether using predefined column sorting (automatic) or drag-and-drop sorting (manual), when users see data in a particular order on screen and the system's automation ignores it, it creates frustration and erodes trust. Users expect that if they can see data in a certain order, the system should be able to work with it in that order.

Request to Zoho Team

Can this be addressed in a future update?

This is a fundamental disconnect between what users see in the UI and what developers can access in code. Both sorting methods (predefined column and drag-and-drop) suffer from this limitation. The current implementation forces developers to choose between:

1. Disable Sorting
Remove sorting capabilities (both predefined column and drag-and-drop) to avoid user confusion when automation doesn't respect display order
2. Accept Mismatch
Allow users to sort but acknowledge that automation will produce unexpected results

Neither option is acceptable for professional applications.

Community Input Requested: Has anyone else encountered this limitation or found a reliable workaround? This affects any application where subform ordering matters to end users.


    Access your files securely from anywhere

        All-in-one knowledge management and training platform for your employees and customers.







                              Zoho Developer Community




                                                    • Desk Community Learning Series


                                                    • Digest


                                                    • Functions


                                                    • Meetups


                                                    • Kbase


                                                    • Resources


                                                    • Glossary


                                                    • Desk Marketplace


                                                    • MVP Corner


                                                    • Word of the Day


                                                    • Ask the Experts





                                                              Manage your brands on social media



                                                                    Zoho TeamInbox Resources



                                                                        Zoho CRM Plus Resources

                                                                          Zoho Books Resources


                                                                            Zoho Subscriptions Resources

                                                                              Zoho Projects Resources


                                                                                Zoho Sprints Resources


                                                                                  Qntrl Resources


                                                                                    Zoho Creator Resources



                                                                                        Zoho CRM Resources

                                                                                        • CRM Community Learning Series

                                                                                          CRM Community Learning Series


                                                                                        • Kaizen

                                                                                          Kaizen

                                                                                        • Functions

                                                                                          Functions

                                                                                        • Meetups

                                                                                          Meetups

                                                                                        • Kbase

                                                                                          Kbase

                                                                                        • Resources

                                                                                          Resources

                                                                                        • Digest

                                                                                          Digest

                                                                                        • CRM Marketplace

                                                                                          CRM Marketplace

                                                                                        • MVP Corner

                                                                                          MVP Corner









                                                                                            Design. Discuss. Deliver.

                                                                                            Create visually engaging stories with Zoho Show.

                                                                                            Get Started Now


                                                                                              Zoho Show Resources

                                                                                                Zoho Writer

                                                                                                Get Started. Write Away!

                                                                                                Writer is a powerful online word processor, designed for collaborative work.

                                                                                                  Zoho CRM コンテンツ




                                                                                                    Nederlandse Hulpbronnen


                                                                                                        ご検討中の方




                                                                                                                • Recent Topics

                                                                                                                • Stop Zoho Projects From Automatically Adding Client Users

                                                                                                                  I have a custom function that creates a Zoho Project for every Quote attached to a Deal when it moves to Closed Won. Everything works fine, except for the fact that connecting a Zoho Project to the CRM automatically takes the Contact associated with the
                                                                                                                • dd Linked Note to Comments & History via Custom Function + Zoho Document View Feature

                                                                                                                  Hi all, I have a couple of custom functions running in Zoho (specifically in Inventory/Books), and I'm trying to streamline it. Here’s the scenario: When a Purchase Receive is processed, my custom function automatically creates a Package. I'd like to
                                                                                                                • How to break line in zohoCRM

                                                                                                                  Hello everyone, I'm currently working with Deluge scripting language and encountering an issue with newline characters (\n). My goal is to format a string with multiple lines, but the newline characters are not being interpreted correctly. Instead of
                                                                                                                • Marketer’s Space: Supercharged Workflow with Zoho CRM Integration

                                                                                                                  Hello Marketers! Welcome back to another post in Marketer’s Space. Today, we’ll explore how integrating Zoho CRM with Zoho Campaigns can help you create smarter, more personalized Workflow. In this post, we’ll look at a specific use case to demonstrate
                                                                                                                • Zoho Live chat doesnt chat on CRM Contact page????

                                                                                                                  We have used Salesforce Live Agent for the last 8 years and the chat comes in on the Contact record which is logical and intuitive as the chat agent can see the customers sales history and open opportunities...etc... We just migrated to Zoho CRM and I
                                                                                                                • Image Quality Issue on Zoho Assist

                                                                                                                  Hello, For the past two days, I've been experiencing a significant image quality issue on Zoho Assist when connecting to one of my computers. I’ve tried reinstalling the application, but the issue persists across multiple devices. The internet connection
                                                                                                                • New views to manage activities within a record

                                                                                                                  Dear customers, We hope you're well! Today, we're here with a useful update to the Activities related list. As you might be aware, parent records display related information from other modules as related lists. This helps you get a 360-degree view of
                                                                                                                • Sent Mail not in "Sent" IMAP folder

                                                                                                                  I have configured ZOHO to use IMAP. When I send an email from within Zoho, the email does not show up in my "Sent" IMAP folder. Every email client I have ever used, stores sent mails in the "Sent" folder. This is a serious flaw!  Please fix this ASAP! Oliver
                                                                                                                • Admin Control for Subscribing Users to Bots in Zoho Cliq

                                                                                                                  Hello, I would like to request an enhancement to Zoho Cliq, specifically related to subscribing users to bots. Current Issue: When using the Zoho Desk integration with Cliq, notifications such as Mentions, Happiness Ratings, and Pending Blueprint Transitions
                                                                                                                • Eighth Insight - Oversee module relationships with Lookups

                                                                                                                  The Wheels of Ticketing - Desk Stories Oversee module relationships with Lookups ‌Learning about lookups A lookup field provides a powerful way to display and utilize data from another module directly within a field of your current module. This functionality
                                                                                                                • New capabilities for custom buttons: Elevate UX and CX with just a click!

                                                                                                                  -------------------------------------------------Post moderated on 24th May-------------------------------------------------------------- Dear all, The feature is now available for all users in all DCs. Dear Customers, We hope you're well! We're happy
                                                                                                                • CRM APP

                                                                                                                  So the crm can now have image uploads. Great for us doing site surveys and linking them to customers. Unfortunatley the crm app does not show the image fields.  Any ideas of must we create a form and then link that?
                                                                                                                • Zia Summary for Account - What is its reach

                                                                                                                  Hello! I've been working with the Zia summary feature and it's very useful. However, it seems to pull in notes and things directly "on" the Account. If I have a meeting or phone call and provided detailed summaries with the event associated to the account,
                                                                                                                • Search a custom module record based on a date range

                                                                                                                  Hi , I hope you can share some guidance. I need to look up a record from a custom module based on the Closing Date of a Deal (in the Deals module). Here’s the context: 1. I have a custom module that stores quarterly values (e.g., rates or thresholds).
                                                                                                                • How do I associate an expense to multiple projects?

                                                                                                                  How do I associate itemized expenses to multiple projects, like assigning each line to the respective project
                                                                                                                • So what's the limit?

                                                                                                                  Recently our team encountered an error popping out when sending a service report. Although the report was sent successfully to zoho desk but the site asset record isn't updated. We notice this error occur only when line items [subform record] exceeds
                                                                                                                • Charge to add client users to a ZOHO Project?

                                                                                                                  Is there a charge to add client users to access a zoho project portal?  An additional license charge or any other additional costs?  Thank You
                                                                                                                • Zoho CRM Notifications API - Channel Expiry

                                                                                                                  Has anyone built a reliable integration with CRM Notification API (https://www.zoho.com/crm/developer/docs/api/v8/notifications/overview.html)? Need to sync CRM data with my external system and prefer not to use CRM workflows which ist a nice low code
                                                                                                                • Create Tasks in arbitrary Zoho Project triggered from CRM [Zoho CRM]

                                                                                                                  Community, hello What I'm trying to do is to create a Zoho Project when a Deal is created in CRM and then to be able to add tasks to this Project also from Zoho CRM with the trigger (Blueprint/ Workflow). I succeeded in creating Project using Zoho Flow,
                                                                                                                • job opening status is locked and and I cannot change it

                                                                                                                  Dear Support I am using standard plan. The job opening status is locked and and I cannot change it.
                                                                                                                • IDN domain

                                                                                                                  Why I can't use my domain www.blažek.com I do not want use unfolded shape www.xn--blaek-wib.com in my mail. Can you help me please?
                                                                                                                • Gmail - Error 553 Relaying Disallowed

                                                                                                                  Hey Zoho, I have just set up my mail server and added a couple of email accounts. I've verified my domain and added the mx records with my registrar (namecheap.com) What I'm trying to do is to be able to send email from my domain through Gmail.  In Google
                                                                                                                • Candidate status change

                                                                                                                  I am trying to change candidate status from "interview scheduled" to "hired". Where do I do this at?
                                                                                                                • How can I set up my contacts so that all users can have them on hand when they sign in?

                                                                                                                  Hi.  For my business I would like to set up the Contacts so they are available for any user. 
                                                                                                                • Sharing Knowledge Base articles across multiple departments

                                                                                                                  It would be useful to share some Knowledge Base articles across multiple departments where they are applicable, rather than having to go into other departments to find the article you're looking for. For example. Our reception uses the 'Admin' desk whereas our IT guys use the 'Support' desk, however both divisions would find KB articles about our company intranet useful. Reception does not have access to the support desk, so cannot see articles created in the Support KB. Perhaps you could install
                                                                                                                • Where do we manage tags?

                                                                                                                  Where is the page where we can view all tags and manage them (like change a tag name to something else or merge tickets under a particular tag with another)?
                                                                                                                • Custom Return Path - Host Name

                                                                                                                  Hi there, I've successfully set up SPF/ DKIM for Marketing Automation, but struggling to complete the Custom Return Path. I'm settting up on Wix. What should the host name be for the CNAME record? In Zoho Help it just says: "type your host name (sub-domain
                                                                                                                • How to send Messages to Leads/customers

                                                                                                                  I’d like to inquire about the process for sending messages or follow-up communications to customers directly from Zoho CRM. Could you please guide me on the best way to do this—whether via email, SMS, or any integrated messaging feature? Additionally,
                                                                                                                • Daily-rate for projects

                                                                                                                  I am billing my client through daily billing rates; for Zoho Books projects, only hourly rates can be set up. Please enhance this. Thanks.
                                                                                                                • Admin Console Email

                                                                                                                  I can't remember the admin console email or password. How do I find that out?
                                                                                                                • help me! the button "remove zoho ad" is not responding

                                                                                                                  help me! the button "remove zoho ad" is not responding, kindly advice. please to check the follows : https://sitepreview-643549202.zohositescontent.com/previewsite https://sitebuilder-643549202.zohositescontent.com/builder thanks,best  regards
                                                                                                                • Transform Your Customer Support with AI-Powered Chatbots in Zoho SalesIQ

                                                                                                                  Ever wondered how some companies seem to have superhuman customer support? Let's uncover their secret! In the digital age, customer expectations are skyrocketing. Did you know that according to McKinsey, 75% of consumers expect a response within five
                                                                                                                • Free tier

                                                                                                                  Does a completely free tier Zoho email still exists? If so why am I receiving email reminders that my account would expire in 2 days
                                                                                                                • Disable "skip to content" in Help Center

                                                                                                                  Our users used to be able to press the tab button to skip between fields when submitting a new ticket in the help center. Now it pulls up the "skip to content" button in the top left corner. I know this is an accessibility feature, but is there any way
                                                                                                                • Mail Data Migration

                                                                                                                  Hello Team, I have an issue with my organization mail data migration from Google to Zoho. We used Google Workspace before now but decided to change to Zoho to enjoy your service. I have successfully created an account and 1. Complete Domain verification
                                                                                                                • Prompting email addresses when sending an email

                                                                                                                  Hi, I was just wondering if it was possible to disable the prompt / suggestion of email addresses when you begin typing an email address into the TO or CC box? Some of the email addresses that are being suggested are people that no longer require the
                                                                                                                • This is a HTML email and your email client software does not support HTML email!

                                                                                                                  I have a small business, recently the email notification is coming like this to me, can anyone please help me? I am not so IT savvy -----=_NextPart_b4583c76c623900f59ad5b420c6da260 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_b4583c76c623900f59ad5b420c6da260_alt"
                                                                                                                • How to insert a ZohoUser in a subform field?

                                                                                                                  I am building an new external web app that uses the ZohoCRM REST API (v8) to push data to Zoho. How do I use the ZohoCRM REST API to insert ZohoUsers into a subform field? I've tried several approaches and none of them have worked - inserting the ID as
                                                                                                                • Unable to receive emails

                                                                                                                  Hello - I set up an email account for my domain. I can send emails but cannot receive them. I believe the issue might be with incorrect IMAP configuration (?) - but im not sure and cant find where this is on the platform. Im using Zoho hosting for the
                                                                                                                • Zoho Account delete function

                                                                                                                  Hello Zoho support team The issue is as follows: Step1: Created an account community@bisonenergy.net Step2: Deleted this account. Step3: Created the new group mail using the same mail address, but the data already exists. So I have to change the name
                                                                                                                • Next Page