Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

As highlighted in this community post, we still have to deal with the significant limitation of not being able to access the user-sorted order of subform rows through Deluge. This creates a major disconnect between the UI capabilities and backend automation, and I'm hoping the Zoho team can address this in a future update.

The Issue
Zoho Creator now offers two distinct subform sorting methods:
  • Drag and drop: Manual, user-controlled sorting where users reorder rows by dragging them into their preferred sequence. The sort order is arbitrary and based on user preference, not field values.
  • By predefined column: Automatic, system-controlled sorting based on a specified column that happens whenever the record is created or updated. The sort order is predictable and based on field values.
However, these sorted orders are completely invisible to Deluge scripts. When you iterate through subform rows using for each loops, you get the records in their original creation order—regardless of whether the subform uses drag-and-drop sorting or automatic column-based sorting.

The Problem
Regardless of which sorting method is configured, the display order is trapped in the UI layer—Deluge has no way to access it.
Sorting Method What User Sees What Deluge Sees Result
Drag and Drop
User drags Row 5 to position 1
Row 5 appears at the top of the subform Row 5 is still in position 5 (creation order) ✗ Custom order completely ignored
Predefined Column
Subform set to sort by "Priority" (High to Low)
Rows automatically displayed in priority order after save Original creation order (Row 1, Row 2, Row 3...) ✗ Automatic sorting not reflected
Either Method
User clicks "Generate Report" button
Expects report to match displayed order Report generated in creation order ✗ Output doesn't match user's view
Current Limitations
Regardless of which sorting method is enabled, you cannot:
  • Loop through subform rows in the display order (whether drag-and-drop or predefined column)
  • Access any "sort order" or "display position" field
  • Determine which column is used for automatic sorting
  • Detect if drag-and-drop sorting is enabled
  • Update a field (like "Sequence Number") to reflect the sorted order
  • Generate custom reports in Pages or Deluge that respect the subform's display order
Important Note: Record Templates do preserve the re-sorted order when generating PDFs or documents. This means basic reporting through record templates works correctly. However, for any advanced reporting—such as custom HTML in Deluge, Pages, or programmatic data processing—the sorted order is completely inaccessible, making it impossible to replicate what record templates can do.
Example: The Disconnect
Here's a real-world scenario that demonstrates the problem:
// SCENARIO: Task subform is configured to sort by "Priority" column (High to Low)
// This is automatic sorting - happens when record is created/updated
// User clicks a button to "Generate Prioritized Task List"

// What the developer writes:
for each task in input.Task_Subform
{
    task_list = task_list + task.Task_Name + "\n";
}

// EXPECTED OUTPUT (what user sees on screen after save):
// 1. Fix critical bug (High)
// 2. Review code (High)  
// 3. Update documentation (Medium)
// 4. Refactor old code (Low)

// ACTUAL OUTPUT (what Deluge produces):
// 1. Update documentation (Medium)     ← Created first
// 2. Fix critical bug (High)           ← Created second  
// 3. Refactor old code (Low)           ← Created third
// 4. Review code (High)                ← Created fourth

// Result: User confusion and loss of trust in the system
// Note: The same problem occurs with drag-and-drop sorting!
Impact: The generated output doesn't match what the user sees on screen, creating confusion and undermining user confidence. This affects both automatic sorting (by predefined column) and manual sorting (drag-and-drop).
Attempted Workarounds (All Inadequate)
Workaround Approach Implementation Problems Status
Manual Sequence Field Add a "Sequence" number field that users manually update - Requires users to manually type numbers
- Defeats purpose of drag-and-drop sorting
- Doesn't work with predefined column sorting
- Prone to errors and gaps
- Poor user experience
✗ Not viable for real-world use
Sort in Deluge Instead Use Deluge's .sort() function on subform collection - Only works if you know the predefined sort column
- Cannot replicate custom drag-and-drop order at all
- Assumes single-column sorting
- Doesn't help if user needs multi-column sort
- Still a workaround for what should be automatic
⚠ Partial solution for predefined column only
JavaScript Widget Build custom UI using JavaScript Widget instead of native form - Requires abandoning native form entirely
- Must rebuild entire subform interface from scratch
- Significant development and maintenance overhead
- Loses all native form features and functionality
- Defeats the purpose of using Creator's built-in forms
✗ Not viable - abandons native functionality
What Should Happen Instead
Proposed Solution 1: Display Order Field Add a system-generated field that reflects the current display order:
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order")
{
    // Process tasks in the order the user sees them
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Proposed Solution 2: Sort State Information Provide access to the current sort configuration and type:
sort_info = input.Task_Subform.getSortState();
// Returns: 
// {"type": "predefined_column", "column": "Priority", "direction": "desc"}
// or {"type": "drag_and_drop"}

if(sort_info.get("type") == "drag_and_drop")
{
    // Drag-and-drop enabled, access via display_order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order");
}
else if(sort_info.get("type") == "predefined_column")
{
    // Predefined column sorting, replicate that sort
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy(sort_info.get("column"), sort_info.get("direction"));
}
else
{
    // No sorting configured, use creation order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform;
}
Proposed Solution 3: Built-in Sort Preservation Automatically update a hidden "display_sequence" field whenever the display order changes (whether through predefined column sorting or drag-and-drop), making it accessible to Deluge:
// System automatically maintains display_sequence field for both sorting methods
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_sequence")
{
    // Always iterates in display order
    // Works regardless of sorting method (predefined column or drag-and-drop)
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Any of these solutions would bridge the gap between UI capabilities and backend automation for both sorting methods.
Real-World Impact
This limitation affects critical business processes:
  • Project Management (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts tasks by priority, but automated status reports generate in creation order, not priority order
  • Meeting Agendas (Drag and Drop): Users arrange agenda items manually via drag-and-drop, but generated PDF shows items in original entry order
  • Invoice Line Items (Drag and Drop): Users reorder line items for presentation purposes, but printed invoices ignore the arrangement
  • Course Curriculum (Predefined Column or Drag and Drop): Instructors order lessons logically (either by lesson number or manual arrangement), but student-facing materials display in database order
  • Checklist Applications (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts by due date or priority, but automated reminders follow original creation order
  • Product Catalogs (Drag and Drop): Users arrange products by preference or featured status, but exports and integrations ignore the curation

User Experience Impact: Whether using predefined column sorting (automatic) or drag-and-drop sorting (manual), when users see data in a particular order on screen and the system's automation ignores it, it creates frustration and erodes trust. Users expect that if they can see data in a certain order, the system should be able to work with it in that order.

Request to Zoho Team

Can this be addressed in a future update?

This is a fundamental disconnect between what users see in the UI and what developers can access in code. Both sorting methods (predefined column and drag-and-drop) suffer from this limitation. The current implementation forces developers to choose between:

1. Disable Sorting
Remove sorting capabilities (both predefined column and drag-and-drop) to avoid user confusion when automation doesn't respect display order
2. Accept Mismatch
Allow users to sort but acknowledge that automation will produce unexpected results

Neither option is acceptable for professional applications.

Community Input Requested: Has anyone else encountered this limitation or found a reliable workaround? This affects any application where subform ordering matters to end users.


    Access your files securely from anywhere







                            Zoho Developer Community




                                                  • Desk Community Learning Series


                                                  • Digest


                                                  • Functions


                                                  • Meetups


                                                  • Kbase


                                                  • Resources


                                                  • Glossary


                                                  • Desk Marketplace


                                                  • MVP Corner


                                                  • Word of the Day


                                                  • Ask the Experts





                                                            Manage your brands on social media



                                                                  Zoho TeamInbox Resources



                                                                      Zoho CRM Plus Resources

                                                                        Zoho Books Resources


                                                                          Zoho Subscriptions Resources

                                                                            Zoho Projects Resources


                                                                              Zoho Sprints Resources


                                                                                Qntrl Resources


                                                                                  Zoho Creator Resources



                                                                                      Zoho CRM Resources

                                                                                      • CRM Community Learning Series

                                                                                        CRM Community Learning Series


                                                                                      • Kaizen

                                                                                        Kaizen

                                                                                      • Functions

                                                                                        Functions

                                                                                      • Meetups

                                                                                        Meetups

                                                                                      • Kbase

                                                                                        Kbase

                                                                                      • Resources

                                                                                        Resources

                                                                                      • Digest

                                                                                        Digest

                                                                                      • CRM Marketplace

                                                                                        CRM Marketplace

                                                                                      • MVP Corner

                                                                                        MVP Corner









                                                                                          Design. Discuss. Deliver.

                                                                                          Create visually engaging stories with Zoho Show.

                                                                                          Get Started Now


                                                                                            Zoho Show Resources

                                                                                              Zoho Writer

                                                                                              Get Started. Write Away!

                                                                                              Writer is a powerful online word processor, designed for collaborative work.

                                                                                                Zoho CRM コンテンツ



                                                                                                  Nederlandse Hulpbronnen


                                                                                                      ご検討中の方




                                                                                                              • Recent Topics

                                                                                                              • Zoho Writer Merge Template with data from Zoho Analytics Views

                                                                                                                Hello, Is there any way to pull information from Zoho Analytics and put it into a Merge Template? I am trying to create a bulk export of one report that filters on a field to create a single document for each of the filter fields.
                                                                                                              • Having to enter bill before stock shows as available.

                                                                                                                Hi, Am I right in thinking you must create a bill from the purchase order receipt before the goods are available for shipping?
                                                                                                              • Agent Availability Report

                                                                                                                From data to decisions: A deep dive into ticketing system reports Businesses need to track when their support agents check in and check out from work. This report, titled Agent Availability, is one of the static reports that helps managers track the number
                                                                                                              • AI-driven construction analytics using Zoho Projects Plus

                                                                                                                Construction projects thrive on timelines; if a project is completed on or before the expected time, it makes headlines, but if it gets delayed, the company’s credibility will be at risk. Such projects require precise planning and constant monitoring,
                                                                                                              • Canadian payroll

                                                                                                                Hello ZOHO, is any updates on when payroll for Canada will be available?
                                                                                                              • Unified customer view: Bringing product intelligence into your CRM data

                                                                                                                For businesses today, applications and digital interfaces are the main touch points in the customer journey. While Zoho CRM data already tells who your customers are and what they buy, Zoho Apptics tells you how they interact and engage with your product.
                                                                                                              • Zoho Creator SaaS app with multiple client AND multiple users

                                                                                                                I am close to finalizing a Zoho Creator app that will be used by different companies to manage sale info, and each company can have multiple users using the app. Things were going perfectly until I tried a search on a report. I use a database field in each table to separate the data for each company, which works great. BUT when I do a search, I get to see ALL the data. This means that Company A could easily see the data from Companies B and C via the built-in search. Is there a way to set up the
                                                                                                              • Possible to send Zoom AI Companion transcripts and summaries to contacts in CRM?

                                                                                                                Title says it all. Is it possible to send Zoom AI Companion transcripts and summaries to contacts in Zoho CRM?
                                                                                                              • How do I edit the Calendar Invite notifications for Interviews in Recruit?

                                                                                                                I'm setting up the Zoho Recruit Interview Calendar system but there's some notifications I don't have any control over. I've turned off all Workflows and Automations related to the Calendar Scheduling and it seems that it's the notification that is sent
                                                                                                              • Clarity on extended contract status

                                                                                                                Clarity on “extended” status- How does Zoho “extend” a contract?  E.g. if client extends by 1 month, can the “end date” be adjusted accordingly in Zoho and tagged as “Extended” with a clear audit trail that also captures the client’s email? Note- Email
                                                                                                              • Customizing contract status

                                                                                                                Can we customize/add/remove status on Zoho contracts ourselves or does Zoho needs to do this? Context- There is a long list of status on Zoho but not all of them are relevant for us . There are few status which are missing and needs to be added. E.g-
                                                                                                              • Set Custom Business Calendars and Holidays for Global Teams

                                                                                                                Managing a project across diverse teams means accounting for more than just tasks and deadlines; it means acknowledging how and when each team actually works. Users might follow different working days or observe region-specific holidays that cannot be
                                                                                                              • [Integration edition] Deluge learning series - Integrations between Zoho apps and Third-party services with Deluge | 28 August 2025

                                                                                                                We’re excited to welcome you to the Deluge learning series: Integration edition! The Integration edition will run for three months: Session 1 – Integrating Zoho Apps with Deluge using inbuilt integration tasks Session 2 – Integrating Zoho Apps with Deluge
                                                                                                              • Critical Vulnerability in all major password manager plugins - is Zoho Vault affected?

                                                                                                                Hi Zoho, a security researcher found a critical clickjacking vulnerability in all major browser password managers: DOM-based Extension Clickjacking: Your Password Manager Data at Risk | Marek Tóth Is Zoho Vault affected as well? Apparently the Vault extension
                                                                                                              • Need Your Insights

                                                                                                                Hi Zoho, I'm confused why the flow only sends to one output. setVariable15 is from a list. It doesn't consider the 2nd entry. Any thoughts?
                                                                                                              • Map Dependency Fields - How can can I limit picklist values from a multi-select Parent field?

                                                                                                                I know the "Map Dependency Fields" feature doesn't allow a multi-select parent field. However, I need the functionality. Can I do it through a deluge function, and would it still support color coding picklists? We need the color coding for quick scanning
                                                                                                              • DYK 1 - Color Palette for Enhanced Visual Identification of Status

                                                                                                                Introducing the Did You Know series of posts. The goal of this series is to familiarize users with certain features or enhancements in Zoho Projects that may not be evident at first glance. The first post in this series deals with color palettes for indicating
                                                                                                              • Invalid field in the COQL query

                                                                                                                Dear Zoho Support! I believe that you already helped me with a similar problem a few years ago. One of my clients has a custom field named "LOB" in the "Deals" Module (see the field's metadata below). The COQL query using this field: : "select id, Deal_Name,
                                                                                                              • Transferring domain registration to new registrar and switching email hosting at the same time?

                                                                                                                I need to transfer an existing domain uv cure adhesive that's currently with SiteGround to Porkbun. I also need to move the existing custom email addresses from SiteGround to Zoho Mail. I'm not sure if I should transfer the domain first and then tackle
                                                                                                              • Split deposits

                                                                                                                Can Zoho do split deposits. One deposit, two checks for two separate invoices from different customers. This is one of the most common tasks I can imaging. When I mark the two invoices paid, there are two deposits in bank register. When I try to match,
                                                                                                              • Deactivate Desk Contact without Deleting Contat

                                                                                                                We have a client who has multiple tenants for regulatory purposes, and as such, has a few users that have email addresses in both tenants. They've then emailed into the ticketing system, so we have multiple contacts (no big deal, we want to keep their
                                                                                                              • [Free Webinar] Learning Table Series - Zoho Creator for Asset Management with AI Enhancements

                                                                                                                Hello Everyone! We’re excited to invite you to another edition of Learning Table Series, where we showcase how Zoho Creator empowers industries with innovative and automated solutions. Each month highlights a specific sector, and this time our focus is
                                                                                                              • Is there any way to get notified when a failure execution happens on a Workflow ?

                                                                                                                Hello, I wanted to know if it was possible to get notified (like with a mail for example) when a single failure happens on a specific flow of my organization ? I know that there's a mail which warns you when there's 20 failure in a row on the same flow,
                                                                                                              • Menu Building is completely broken

                                                                                                                I have been 3 hours, I have not been able to edit the menu. Either it is completely broken, very little intuitive or I do now know anything... There is no way to create a megamenu, no way to create a menu. Despite the fact I go to menu configurartion
                                                                                                              • Can you sell Subscriptions using Zoho Commerce?

                                                                                                                In addition to physical products and the apparently coming soon 'Digital Products', it is possible to sell Subscriptions using Zoho Commerce?
                                                                                                              • Kaizen #197: Frequently Asked Questions on GraphQL APIs

                                                                                                                🎊 Nearing 200th Kaizen Post – We want to hear from you! Do you have any questions, suggestions, or topics you would like us to cover in future posts? Your insights and suggestions help us shape future content and make this series better for everyone.
                                                                                                              • Multiple Languages for Product Names

                                                                                                                Hi, I use 2 languages: spanish and english. I want to have for every product a name in spanish and a name on english. I want to have to possibility of choosing one of these languages when making an invoice or a purchase order. Is there any way to do
                                                                                                              • Item with name in different languate

                                                                                                                Hello, is there a way to have an item with its name in different languages? For example: I sell an item in different markets and I'd like to have a Proposal and the Invoice with the Item Name in a specific language. Rino Bertolotto Zoho Specialist, STESA srl
                                                                                                              • Contacts with most tickets? Alarm for multiple tickets?

                                                                                                                Is it possible to see through the analytics/reports which contacts are creating the most tickets (not the most discussed ones)? Also, is there a way to set up a notification if a contact creates multiple tickets within a certain time frame?
                                                                                                              • Issue with Template Subject Line Format in Zoho CRM

                                                                                                                Hi Team, I’ve noticed that when I update the subject line of an email template in Zoho CRM, it sometimes appears in an incorrect format when used. Please see the attached screenshot for reference. Kindly look into this issue and fix this issue from backend
                                                                                                              • Two Data Labels in Bar Chart

                                                                                                                I need to create a bar chart that has both the SUM and COUNT. I've concatenated them into a formula but it converts it into a stacked bar / scattered chart. The bar chart is no longer accessible. Since i'm comparing YOY, it would be best to have it in
                                                                                                              • Disable field on subform row

                                                                                                                Hi, Is it currently possible to disable a row item on a subform? I was just trying to do something whereby until another value is entered the field is disable but for the deluge scripting interface threw up an error saying such a function is not supported on a subform. Thanks in advance for your help. Shaheed
                                                                                                              • Leads - Kanban view fit to screen

                                                                                                                Hey guys, I created a custom layout for my leads, staged by lead status. I have 10 types of status. In Kanban view I see only 4 columns/stages and need to scroll to the right to see the rest. Is there a way to make columns/stages be displayed all together?
                                                                                                              • Request to Differentiate Auto-Closed WhatsApp Conversations in SalesIQ

                                                                                                                Hi Zoho Support, I’d like to raise a request related to the way WhatsApp conversations are auto-closed in SalesIQ. Every Monday, our Sales team has to manually review each closed WhatsApp conversation from the weekend to identify which ones were automatically
                                                                                                              • Kanban View UI gets a revamp

                                                                                                                Hello everyone, In the coming week you will notice design related enhancements in Kanban View. The UI has been changed and a new option is introduced under Kanban View Settings that allows to change the color of the category headers.  Please, note that the functionality is not changed. These changes will not apply to the Activities and Visits modules. Here are the details of the changes: 1. The column widths have been fixed to 300 px. The records will have a box around them for clear distinction.
                                                                                                              • Issue with Anchor Link on Zoho Landing Page (Mobile/Tablet View)

                                                                                                                Hi Team, I have created a landing page using Zoho Landing Page and added an anchor link to it. The anchor link is working fine on desktop view; however, it does not work properly on mobile or tablet view. I’ve tried debugging this issue in multiple ways,
                                                                                                              • Simplest way to convert XML to a map?

                                                                                                                I've reviewed the help info and some great posts on the forum here by Stephen Rhyne (srhyne). At the moment I'm using XPath to generate a list of xml nodes, iterating through that to fetch the field name/value pairs and adding them to a map (one map for each record in the data). I then convert the row map to a string and add it to a list. Here's the function: list xml.getRecordListFromXML(string xml_data, string ele_name) {     result = List();     // get list of record nodes     rec_list = input.xml_data.toXML().executeXPath("//"
                                                                                                              • Introducing Creator Simplified: An exclusive learning series to enhance your app development skills

                                                                                                                Hey Creators! Welcome to Zoho Creator's new learning series, Creator Simplified. In this series, we'll dive into real-world business use cases and explore how to translate your requirements into solutions in your Creator application. You can also expect
                                                                                                              • [Product update] Updated Data Synchronization Process for QuickBooks - Zoho Analytics Integration.

                                                                                                                Dear QuickBooks integration users, We’re making an important update in the way data is currently synced in your QuickBooks integration within Analytics workspace. What’s changing: Previously, with every data synchronization, Zoho Analytics used to fetch
                                                                                                              • Zoho CRM new calander format cannot strikethrough completed task

                                                                                                                Hi, Recently there is a new format for calendar within Zoho CRM However, found out that a completed task will not cross out or strikethrough like previous format. Without strikethrough, it will be difficult to identify which task is still in Open status.
                                                                                                              • Next Page