Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

Cannot Access Subform Display Order in Deluge

As highlighted in this community post, we still have to deal with the significant limitation of not being able to access the user-sorted order of subform rows through Deluge. This creates a major disconnect between the UI capabilities and backend automation, and I'm hoping the Zoho team can address this in a future update.

The Issue
Zoho Creator now offers two distinct subform sorting methods:
  • Drag and drop: Manual, user-controlled sorting where users reorder rows by dragging them into their preferred sequence. The sort order is arbitrary and based on user preference, not field values.
  • By predefined column: Automatic, system-controlled sorting based on a specified column that happens whenever the record is created or updated. The sort order is predictable and based on field values.
However, these sorted orders are completely invisible to Deluge scripts. When you iterate through subform rows using for each loops, you get the records in their original creation order—regardless of whether the subform uses drag-and-drop sorting or automatic column-based sorting.

The Problem
Regardless of which sorting method is configured, the display order is trapped in the UI layer—Deluge has no way to access it.
Sorting Method What User Sees What Deluge Sees Result
Drag and Drop
User drags Row 5 to position 1
Row 5 appears at the top of the subform Row 5 is still in position 5 (creation order) ✗ Custom order completely ignored
Predefined Column
Subform set to sort by "Priority" (High to Low)
Rows automatically displayed in priority order after save Original creation order (Row 1, Row 2, Row 3...) ✗ Automatic sorting not reflected
Either Method
User clicks "Generate Report" button
Expects report to match displayed order Report generated in creation order ✗ Output doesn't match user's view
Current Limitations
Regardless of which sorting method is enabled, you cannot:
  • Loop through subform rows in the display order (whether drag-and-drop or predefined column)
  • Access any "sort order" or "display position" field
  • Determine which column is used for automatic sorting
  • Detect if drag-and-drop sorting is enabled
  • Update a field (like "Sequence Number") to reflect the sorted order
  • Generate custom reports in Pages or Deluge that respect the subform's display order
Important Note: Record Templates do preserve the re-sorted order when generating PDFs or documents. This means basic reporting through record templates works correctly. However, for any advanced reporting—such as custom HTML in Deluge, Pages, or programmatic data processing—the sorted order is completely inaccessible, making it impossible to replicate what record templates can do.
Example: The Disconnect
Here's a real-world scenario that demonstrates the problem:
// SCENARIO: Task subform is configured to sort by "Priority" column (High to Low)
// This is automatic sorting - happens when record is created/updated
// User clicks a button to "Generate Prioritized Task List"

// What the developer writes:
for each task in input.Task_Subform
{
    task_list = task_list + task.Task_Name + "\n";
}

// EXPECTED OUTPUT (what user sees on screen after save):
// 1. Fix critical bug (High)
// 2. Review code (High)  
// 3. Update documentation (Medium)
// 4. Refactor old code (Low)

// ACTUAL OUTPUT (what Deluge produces):
// 1. Update documentation (Medium)     ← Created first
// 2. Fix critical bug (High)           ← Created second  
// 3. Refactor old code (Low)           ← Created third
// 4. Review code (High)                ← Created fourth

// Result: User confusion and loss of trust in the system
// Note: The same problem occurs with drag-and-drop sorting!
Impact: The generated output doesn't match what the user sees on screen, creating confusion and undermining user confidence. This affects both automatic sorting (by predefined column) and manual sorting (drag-and-drop).
Attempted Workarounds (All Inadequate)
Workaround Approach Implementation Problems Status
Manual Sequence Field Add a "Sequence" number field that users manually update - Requires users to manually type numbers
- Defeats purpose of drag-and-drop sorting
- Doesn't work with predefined column sorting
- Prone to errors and gaps
- Poor user experience
✗ Not viable for real-world use
Sort in Deluge Instead Use Deluge's .sort() function on subform collection - Only works if you know the predefined sort column
- Cannot replicate custom drag-and-drop order at all
- Assumes single-column sorting
- Doesn't help if user needs multi-column sort
- Still a workaround for what should be automatic
⚠ Partial solution for predefined column only
JavaScript Widget Build custom UI using JavaScript Widget instead of native form - Requires abandoning native form entirely
- Must rebuild entire subform interface from scratch
- Significant development and maintenance overhead
- Loses all native form features and functionality
- Defeats the purpose of using Creator's built-in forms
✗ Not viable - abandons native functionality
What Should Happen Instead
Proposed Solution 1: Display Order Field Add a system-generated field that reflects the current display order:
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order")
{
    // Process tasks in the order the user sees them
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Proposed Solution 2: Sort State Information Provide access to the current sort configuration and type:
sort_info = input.Task_Subform.getSortState();
// Returns: 
// {"type": "predefined_column", "column": "Priority", "direction": "desc"}
// or {"type": "drag_and_drop"}

if(sort_info.get("type") == "drag_and_drop")
{
    // Drag-and-drop enabled, access via display_order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_order");
}
else if(sort_info.get("type") == "predefined_column")
{
    // Predefined column sorting, replicate that sort
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform.sortBy(sort_info.get("column"), sort_info.get("direction"));
}
else
{
    // No sorting configured, use creation order
    sorted_tasks = input.Task_Subform;
}
Proposed Solution 3: Built-in Sort Preservation Automatically update a hidden "display_sequence" field whenever the display order changes (whether through predefined column sorting or drag-and-drop), making it accessible to Deluge:
// System automatically maintains display_sequence field for both sorting methods
for each task in input.Task_Subform.sortBy("display_sequence")
{
    // Always iterates in display order
    // Works regardless of sorting method (predefined column or drag-and-drop)
    info task.Task_Name;
}
Any of these solutions would bridge the gap between UI capabilities and backend automation for both sorting methods.
Real-World Impact
This limitation affects critical business processes:
  • Project Management (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts tasks by priority, but automated status reports generate in creation order, not priority order
  • Meeting Agendas (Drag and Drop): Users arrange agenda items manually via drag-and-drop, but generated PDF shows items in original entry order
  • Invoice Line Items (Drag and Drop): Users reorder line items for presentation purposes, but printed invoices ignore the arrangement
  • Course Curriculum (Predefined Column or Drag and Drop): Instructors order lessons logically (either by lesson number or manual arrangement), but student-facing materials display in database order
  • Checklist Applications (Predefined Column): Subform automatically sorts by due date or priority, but automated reminders follow original creation order
  • Product Catalogs (Drag and Drop): Users arrange products by preference or featured status, but exports and integrations ignore the curation

User Experience Impact: Whether using predefined column sorting (automatic) or drag-and-drop sorting (manual), when users see data in a particular order on screen and the system's automation ignores it, it creates frustration and erodes trust. Users expect that if they can see data in a certain order, the system should be able to work with it in that order.

Request to Zoho Team

Can this be addressed in a future update?

This is a fundamental disconnect between what users see in the UI and what developers can access in code. Both sorting methods (predefined column and drag-and-drop) suffer from this limitation. The current implementation forces developers to choose between:

1. Disable Sorting
Remove sorting capabilities (both predefined column and drag-and-drop) to avoid user confusion when automation doesn't respect display order
2. Accept Mismatch
Allow users to sort but acknowledge that automation will produce unexpected results

Neither option is acceptable for professional applications.

Community Input Requested: Has anyone else encountered this limitation or found a reliable workaround? This affects any application where subform ordering matters to end users.


    Access your files securely from anywhere







                            Zoho Developer Community




                                                  • Desk Community Learning Series


                                                  • Digest


                                                  • Functions


                                                  • Meetups


                                                  • Kbase


                                                  • Resources


                                                  • Glossary


                                                  • Desk Marketplace


                                                  • MVP Corner


                                                  • Word of the Day


                                                  • Ask the Experts





                                                            Manage your brands on social media



                                                                  Zoho TeamInbox Resources



                                                                      Zoho CRM Plus Resources

                                                                        Zoho Books Resources


                                                                          Zoho Subscriptions Resources

                                                                            Zoho Projects Resources


                                                                              Zoho Sprints Resources


                                                                                Qntrl Resources


                                                                                  Zoho Creator Resources



                                                                                      Zoho CRM Resources

                                                                                      • CRM Community Learning Series

                                                                                        CRM Community Learning Series


                                                                                      • Kaizen

                                                                                        Kaizen

                                                                                      • Functions

                                                                                        Functions

                                                                                      • Meetups

                                                                                        Meetups

                                                                                      • Kbase

                                                                                        Kbase

                                                                                      • Resources

                                                                                        Resources

                                                                                      • Digest

                                                                                        Digest

                                                                                      • CRM Marketplace

                                                                                        CRM Marketplace

                                                                                      • MVP Corner

                                                                                        MVP Corner









                                                                                          Design. Discuss. Deliver.

                                                                                          Create visually engaging stories with Zoho Show.

                                                                                          Get Started Now


                                                                                            Zoho Show Resources

                                                                                              Zoho Writer

                                                                                              Get Started. Write Away!

                                                                                              Writer is a powerful online word processor, designed for collaborative work.

                                                                                                Zoho CRM コンテンツ



                                                                                                  Nederlandse Hulpbronnen


                                                                                                      ご検討中の方




                                                                                                              • Recent Topics

                                                                                                              • RouteIQ for Zoho FSM

                                                                                                                Beste, Zou wel top zijn dat we een RouteIQ hebben voor FSM aangezien we constant moeten zien wat de beste route is voor onze monteurs. Nu moeten we een speciale aparte programma hebben om de beste route te berrekenen voor onze monteurs aangezien de planning
                                                                                                              • Export Tickets from the Help Center

                                                                                                                Hello everyone! We are now allowing end users to export tickets directly from the help center. The ticket export allows users to: Filter tickets by Department, Priority, and Account before exporting. Download files from Export History (Setup > Data administration
                                                                                                              • Is it possible to remove filtering options?

                                                                                                                My CRM has a lot of custom fields that should not be used in filters or views. Fields that are automated and exist only to store temporary values that get used in functions. These create a lot of noise in the list of fields to filter. Isn't there any
                                                                                                              • Function #18: Associate invoice templates automatically based on customer language

                                                                                                                For businesses dealing with a diverse linguistic clientele, it becomes crucial to send out invoices in the customer's preferred language to ensure effective communication. This requirement can be handled in Zoho Books by creating invoice templates in
                                                                                                              • Changing field types

                                                                                                                Question im a Zoho CRM user and curious, if I change a flied type from single or multi line text to a URL field type will i lose the data in the field or will it be converted to website link automatically. Thanks
                                                                                                              • Quote PDF – Header image stopped rendering suddenly

                                                                                                                Hello Zoho Support Team, We are facing an issue with Quote PDF templates in Zoho Books. Previously, images added inside the Quote header HTML were rendering correctly. However, recently the header image is no longer appearing, while header text still
                                                                                                              • Changing Default PDF Name

                                                                                                                Is it possible to change the default name of a PDF? As of right now, all of my quotes are named 'QT_$QuoteNumber' (i,e: 'QT_19803471298374) - would it be possible to change this to: '$CompanyName - $AccountName - $QuoteNumber' for instance?
                                                                                                              • Tip 2: Recursive functions in Deluge: How to dynamically run a function for a specified number of times.

                                                                                                                Hi folks, As part of the Zoho Creator - Tips and Tricks series every fortnight, we are back today with a new tip on Recursive functions.  Let us first quickly understand what Recursive functions are: A function that calls itself one or more times is known as a Recursive function. That is, you can execute a function to perform a particular action a specific number of times. And, at the end of each iteration, a new output is generated. Recursive functions are commonly used by programmers as it enables
                                                                                                              • Function #48: Manage fixed installment payments using Zoho Books

                                                                                                                Hello everyone, and welcome back to our series! Businesses offer installment payment options to their customers, particularly for expensive purchases, to ease the financial burden on them. By breaking down the total cost into smaller, more manageable
                                                                                                              • Spotlight series #6: The Show app for Android TV has a new look!

                                                                                                                Hello everyone! We are delighted to introduce our revamped and redesigned Show app for Android TV.  Smart TVs are exploding in popularity. Android TV alone has over 110 million active monthly devices. Zoho Show, as part of a constant effort to improve
                                                                                                              • Can’t create alias “Email alias already exists”

                                                                                                                Hi, I’m trying to create the following alias for my domain email. contact@ personal@ private@ But I get a email alias already exists. I had a soho account previously which I deleted which I suspect is causing the issue. Can someone assist? Kind Rega
                                                                                                              • Appraisals - Order of Previous Reviews Should Be Newest to Oldest

                                                                                                                The new Zoho People layout generally does a decent job at providing the necessary information for performing appraisals of employee performance. One example of this is the Previous Reviews section: This information is helpful when conducting a review.
                                                                                                              • Paging through API results. a major gap in your documentation.

                                                                                                                There is no way for me. to get all of my data through a single API call. Typically REST APis have mechanisms for paging through API results. But the documentation for the API I am using: https://desk.zoho.com/DeskAPIDocument#Introduction Has no mention
                                                                                                              • Recurring invoices were generated with old template...

                                                                                                                I have recurring invoices setup. Ones generated on 10.20.2025 used the modified template I had used. But for some reason, on the ones created on 11/20/2025, it seems the invoices created reverted to the previous version of the invoice template. Notably,
                                                                                                              • Tip #54- Exploring the Files Icon in Zoho Assist- 'Insider Insights'

                                                                                                                As we’re already in mid-December, it’s a good time to take a closer look at one of the most useful options in the Zoho Assist remote support dashboard—the Files icon. To get started, log in to Zoho Assist using your credentials. Once you’re in, navigate
                                                                                                              • Tip#47: Estimation planner

                                                                                                                Sprint planning becomes easier, smoother, more collaborative and more accurate with the Estimation Planner extension. Most work items involve multiple users, and each user's role and effort vary. To provide an unbiased and fair estimation point to the
                                                                                                              • Time Tracking on Iphone doesn't stop

                                                                                                                When I start a time tracking session the timer starts as expected. However when I hit stop, the timer remains on that project. The only buttons available are discard and start. Start runs the timer more and discard says it will throw away the data from
                                                                                                              • Zoho Sign - Zoho CRM extension upgrade

                                                                                                                Hi everyone, We've updated Zoho Sign extension for Zoho CRM with significant internal changes. Impact on existing Zoho Sign extension users Users using the extension without customization If you are using the integration without implementing Zoho Sign's
                                                                                                              • Group by Owner/ Owner Kanban /Group by Custom Field

                                                                                                                Hi, We are missing the option of viewing Tasks grouped by their owner, as it is an essential function for us to manage our employees' working tasks. We find it hard to inspect what are the tasks that our employees are working on.  We are seeking an option
                                                                                                              • Flow using way too many tasks

                                                                                                                I built a flow that is using way too many tasks for what it is doing. I reached out to support a week ago but never heard back so hoping the community can help. Does a filter count as a task? I am seeing tons of records filtered with < 1 Sec Time Taken
                                                                                                              • Regarding the integration of Apollo.io with Zoho crm.

                                                                                                                I have been seeing for the last 3 months that your Apollo.io beta version is available in Zoho Flow, and this application has not gone live yet. We requested this 2 months ago, but you guys said that 'we are working on it,' and when we search on Google
                                                                                                              • Start Workflow from Deluge Script

                                                                                                                I have developed a customized process from our CRM that leverages a deluge script to create a statement of work document. Once the document has been created via the merge and store function, I would like the ability to start a workdrive review & approve
                                                                                                              • Saved Sections?

                                                                                                                In sites editor, the + button reveals options to add a section, element, etc. It includes Saved Sections, but I can find no way to save a section I've already created. Otherwise, is there a way to copy a section from one page to another?
                                                                                                              • Marketer's Space: Unable to select a sender address? Here's the fix

                                                                                                                Hello Marketers, Welcome back to yet another post! So you've added a sender address in Zoho Campaigns and later found that you're not able to select it while creating an email campaign. Has this ever happened to you? If so, don't worry—you're not alone.
                                                                                                              • Loading Project Balances in ZOHO Books for each project

                                                                                                                Hello, What is the best method for loading project balances actual and budget into ZOHO books to provide tracking to our project managers. We have projects and federal awards (also treated as projects) which span multiple years. We are converting from
                                                                                                              • Scale up your writing style with content analysis tool in Knowledge Base

                                                                                                                Hello everyone, Sometimes writers may have strong knowledge about the subject but may find it challenging to articulate clearly or produce comprehensible, jargon free content. To make the process easier and to ensure consistent, high-quality articles,
                                                                                                              • Zoho Books "Update" Trigger for Zapier?

                                                                                                                Hi Zoho Team, I've been in talks with Zapier about using their services to connect my Zoho Books account to various apps, but I require an additional trigger beyond the "New" trigger. I require an "Update" trigger, which will allow me to filter and create Zaps only when certain conditions are fulfilled on the Zoho Books end before I automate a separate app. Specifically this will help me create invoices in QuickBooks Online only when payments are recorded in Zoho Books, rather than when a new invoice
                                                                                                              • How to prevent editing of closed tickets in Zoho Desk?

                                                                                                                I would like to confirm whether it is possible to completely prevent agents from editing tickets once their status is set to Closed. Is there any configuration, permission, or best practice in Zoho Desk to ensure that closed tickets remain read-only and
                                                                                                              • Zoho Desk Limitations

                                                                                                                Good day, all, I would like to know whether others share my frustration with some of Zoho's limitations. Don't get me wrong, I like Desk (and I also have a subscription for Analytics), I have been with them for close to 10 years, and unfortunately, I
                                                                                                              • New Mandatory One-Click Unsubscribe Link Overshadowing Custom Unsubscribe Link

                                                                                                                I was recently informed by Zoho CRM Support that they are now mandated by the large email service providers like Google and Yahoo to provide a one-click unsubscribe option in the header (not the body) of all mass emails. I have a custom unsubscribe link
                                                                                                              • how to undoreconciled transaction

                                                                                                                how to undo reconciled transaction
                                                                                                              • Exciting Updates to the Kiosk Studio Feature in Zoho CRM!

                                                                                                                Hello Everyone, We are here again with a series of new enhancements to Kiosk Studio, designed to elevate your experience and bring even greater efficiency to your business processes. These updates build upon our ongoing commitment to making Kiosk a powerful
                                                                                                              • Change eMail Template for Event-Invitations

                                                                                                                Hello ZOHO-CRM Team How I can change the eMail Template for Event-Invitations? I work with the German Version of the Free Version. I know how I can modify eMail alerts or Signature Templates, but where I can other eMails modify you send out? Thank you for your answer. Regards, Juerg
                                                                                                              • Service Title in Service Report Template Builder

                                                                                                                I am currently working on the Service Report Template Builder in Zoho FSM. I have created three separate service report templates for different workflows: Preventive Maintenance Report Requested Service Report Installation Report My issue is that I cannot
                                                                                                              • Zoho Sign for Zoho Projects

                                                                                                                Documents authorization and validation with signature is now easier in project management with Zoho Projects' Zoho Sign extension. Sign documents or send them for signatures directly from tasks and issues using Zoho Sign extension in Zoho Projects. Extension
                                                                                                              • Deluge Learning Series – Best Practices in Deluge | December 2025

                                                                                                                We’re excited to bring you the next session of the Deluge Learning Series, focused entirely on writing cleaner, faster, and more reliable Deluge code. In this edition, we’ll dive deep into the essential best practices every Deluge developer should follow
                                                                                                              • Associate a Contact to a Campaign using deluge?

                                                                                                                If I want to add one record to another related list, which zoho function do I use? zoho.updateRelatedRecord is not it I don't think.  I simply want to take a "Contact" and associate it to a "Campaign" using deluge.  Can anyone help? contactId = 5122008000000796037;
                                                                                                              • Add "Groups" above "Users" in the Zoho Forms Left Menu

                                                                                                                Hi, We have Groups but you have to go to a Form and Share or use the Directory App to manage them, please add "Groups" above "Users" in the Zoho Forms Left Menu so you can manage them in 1 place within Zoho Forms too. Thanks Dan
                                                                                                              • Zoho Books | Product updates | October 2025

                                                                                                                Hello users, We’ve rolled out new features and enhancements in Zoho Books. From iOS 26 updates to viewing reports as charts, explore the updates designed to enhance your bookkeeping experience. Zoho Books Updates for Apple Devices At WWDC 2025, Apple
                                                                                                              • Adding Taxes to paid consultations in Zoho Bookings

                                                                                                                I created a 'paid' consultation under Zoho Booking and integrated it with payment gateways for online/instant payment before a booking is done. How can I add 'taxes' to the price of consultation? I can add taxes to other Zoho apps (liks Books, Checkout,
                                                                                                              • Next Page